C50 stalling when hot - Motorcycle-Journal Forums

fjm3rd · 06-07-2005, 09:47 PM

Anyone else have a problem with the engine stalling out when it's running hot in this hot weather. Mine keeps stalling out when I'm in stop and go traffic. Took it to the dealer, tried turning up idle a little but still ends up stalling. Gonna have to take it back and see if something else can be done.

c50tiger · 06-07-2005, 11:04 PM

No, and I'd bet I've ridden my C50 in hotter conditions than you've had in PA.

ChicsterMG · 06-07-2005, 11:35 PM

FJM, I'm not far from you and haven't had a problem with the hotter weather yet.

I haven't been out as much do to a bad ankle in the last week though.
I was out yesterday, it hit 83 here. No trouble.

I plan on riding more this week.

Still, it shouldn't happen.

rappidrabbit · 06-08-2005, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjm3rd

Anyone else have a problem with the engine stalling out when it's running hot in this hot weather. Mine keeps stalling out when I'm in stop and go traffic. Took it to the dealer, tried turning up idle a little but still ends up stalling. Gonna have to take it back and see if something else can be done.

here in our area its been running upper 90's to 106 degrees... have not had this problem with my bike... suggest you really have a talk with your dealer's service manager... assume your bike is still in warranty.....good luck

C50 Limited · 06-08-2005, 08:57 AM

I rode mine yesterday in city traffic without any stalling. The fan seemed to come on quite a bit though. Also, this was only my second day to be "street legal" so I still have less than 100 miles on my bike...maybe the stall problem will develop over time. I think I'd let the dealer deal with it.

C50 Limited · 06-08-2005, 09:02 AM

I forgot to mention that it was around 90 degrees here yesterday and very humid.

tlwisner · 06-08-2005, 10:34 AM

I've not seen this problem in 5000 miles since thye end of July '04 when I got my C50. The EFI system has been 100% smooth. Your dealer needs to properly troubleshoot and fix this problem, it's not a "feature"

Good luck and let us know how you do!

mr_resistible · 06-08-2005, 01:35 PM

I had mine stall one time. It was about 65 degrees, going down the highway about 65mph and the freinds I was riding with pulled off the road on a slight up slope. And after about 10 seconds it stalled. But it never happened again.

fjm3rd · 06-08-2005, 11:11 PM

I believe I have to turn up the idle a little more. It's only around 1000 RPM's according to the Tach. Can't really tell for sure cause the needle bounces to much. I believe I read somewhere that it should be 1100 to 1200 RPM's By looking at the Tach and the way the numbers are spaced I honestly don't think it's near that. I'll give it a try one more time. Was at the dealer today they said if it keeps happening bring it in. One thing they did tell me was to use higher octane then 87. They heard it pinging when they took it for a test ride I heard it a little bit but didn't put 2 and 2 together. So I'll try 89 and if it still acts up I guess I got to go to 93 octane. But I know I still have to turn the idle up. Just curious what octane other people are using.

c50tiger · 06-08-2005, 11:22 PM

Suggestion: if available - take it to a different dealer. Sounds like these guys are trying to dodge a warranty fix. As I noted, I've never had a stall problem at all and have never put anything in the tank but 87 octane. And that includes getting stuck in traffic on a two lane road behind a school bus that stopped every 25 yards for 5 miles in 100+ temps late last summer. Only time I've ever noticed the cooling fan switch on. And my manual states idle at operating temps will be 1000rpm to 1200rpm, so you may want to get them to actually try and fix the problem before you go messin' round with that throttle stop screw.

trini0 · 06-09-2005, 02:12 AM

The cooling fan on my C50 comes on all the time.
I've been using 87 octane, and the temps have been in the mid 80s
to mid 90s with lots of humidity, in stop and go traffic.
The only time it stalls, is when I dont use the clutch/gear/gas properly.
Other than that, its been running like a champ thus far.
I 2nd the motion to get another opinion...

Danr · 06-09-2005, 05:47 AM

The dealer said they heard it ping and said try 89 octane.... strange A fuel injected engine you would think would not ping period. Do you gas up at the same place all the time ? if so,I would go some where else for a couple of tank fulls of 87 O and see the results. if your still pinging and stalling i would suspect the FI processor and or a sensor out of whack. hope this helps

nelamvr6 · 06-09-2005, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danr

The dealer said they heard it ping and said try 89 octane.... strange A fuel injected engine you would think would not ping period. Do you gas up at the same place all the time ? if so,I would go some where else for a couple of tank fulls of 87 O and see the results. if your still pinging and stalling i would suspect the FI processor and or a sensor out of whack. hope this helps

I think the octane required has more to do with the compression ratio than the method of getting the fuel/air mixture into the cylinder.

I have had fuel injected cars for quite some time and without high octane gas the cars I had would tend to ping. These cars had fairly high compression ratios.

jcronk23 · 06-09-2005, 08:18 AM

I was utterly stunned when I bought my bike this weekend to see the recommendation of 87 Octane on a 9.4:1 compression...it seems correct, but I don't know why they wouldn't just put 93 in the book considering the operating parameters of such a small engine... I personally feel there are better detergents in 93 or sunoco 94 and it's worth the extrat 50 cents when I fill up a 4.1 gallon tank. Plus I am just used to having to put super in my cars...to avoid detonation under boost.

Granted this bike is water cooled and shouldn't have wild heat variations as an air cooled does....but why not just say 93 to cover their butts? If this thing comes from the factory on the lean side why risk detonation on a COOLER day. I hate to say it but for a FI bike to come Lean from the factory..I don't know why they didn't try to sneak an oxygen sensor on the thing to adjust a fuel map in 3D...instead of 2D reading from tables looked up according to a TPS and a coolant temp sensor...

The bike definately should be more prone to pinging on a cooler day than a warmer one due to a denser air charge coming in...you should be running richer on a hot day.

Plus I am just used to having to put super in my cars...to avoid detonation under boost.

J-

mr_resistible · 06-09-2005, 08:53 AM

I get 85 and 87 all the time. Never had any problems pinging. We have ethanol in our fuel here in Nebraska (corn alcahol) and the higher octane fuels contain more ethanol. I think up to 20% and in some cases that will actually casue a ping especially on hot days.

c50tiger · 06-10-2005, 12:02 AM

The manual plainly states that ehtanol blended fuels may be used if the ethanol content is not greater than 10%. Using a higher percentage blend may jeapordize your new vehicle warranty and the emmissions control system warranty. (Methanol blend limited to 5%).

FI has little to do with pinging - my Rodeo will often ping running on 87, but not on 89.

My cooling fan may run more frequently, but I don't notice it. I only noticed it that once because I was mostly stopped, coast forward 20 feet or so and stop, and repeat until you turn blue from breathing the exhaust of the POS cage in front of you.

tlwisner · 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nelamvr6

I have had fuel injected cars for quite some time and without high octane gas the cars I had would tend to ping. These cars had fairly high compression ratios.

Pinging is from compression, not FI. My GF's FI Chevy Cavalier has never been near anything but the cheapest gas, no problems. My Acura, well, it specifies 92+ octane because of the higher compression ratio. No problems with ping in my C50 in over 5000 miles with nothing but 87 octane.

06-07-2005, 09:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
fjm3rd Seat Tester Joined: Apr 2005 Bike: c50 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 98	C50 stalling when hot Anyone else have a problem with the engine stalling out when it's running hot in this hot weather. Mine keeps stalling out when I'm in stop and go traffic. Took it to the dealer, tried turning up idle a little but still ends up stalling. Gonna have to take it back and see if something else can be done.

06-07-2005, 11:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
c50tiger Can Ride And Chew Gum Joined: Aug 2004 Bike: 2005 C50 Location: Selma, Alabama Posts: 2,058	No, and I'd bet I've ridden my C50 in hotter conditions than you've had in PA. __________________ Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams COGITO EGGO SUM: I think, therefore I am... a waffle

06-07-2005, 11:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
ChicsterMG Refrigerator Magnet Test Engineer Joined: May 2005 Bike: Boulevard C50 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 3,508	FJM, I'm not far from you and haven't had a problem with the hotter weather yet. I haven't been out as much do to a bad ankle in the last week though. I was out yesterday, it hit 83 here. No trouble. I plan on riding more this week. Still, it shouldn't happen. __________________ Sometimes you need to ask yourself, "WWGD?"...Just be awesome, that's all! GUT-CUT 2007: 177 LBS. 160 LBS.

06-08-2005, 10:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
tlwisner Throttle Jockey Joined: Apr 2004 Bike: '05 Boulevard C50 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 3,208	I've not seen this problem in 5000 miles since thye end of July '04 when I got my C50. The EFI system has been 100% smooth. Your dealer needs to properly troubleshoot and fix this problem, it's not a "feature" Good luck and let us know how you do! __________________ Tim Wisner AMA, SCRC Happiness is something we create

06-08-2005, 01:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
mr_resistible Wants Better Weather Joined: Dec 2004 Bike: 05' C50 Location: Gering Ne Posts: 665	I had mine stall one time. It was about 65 degrees, going down the highway about 65mph and the freinds I was riding with pulled off the road on a slight up slope. And after about 10 seconds it stalled. But it never happened again. __________________ ]

06-08-2005, 08:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
C50 Limited In Training Joined: May 2005 Bike: 2005 Limited Edition C50 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 101	I rode mine yesterday in city traffic without any stalling. The fan seemed to come on quite a bit though. Also, this was only my second day to be "street legal" so I still have less than 100 miles on my bike...maybe the stall problem will develop over time. I think I'd let the dealer deal with it.

06-08-2005, 09:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
C50 Limited In Training Joined: May 2005 Bike: 2005 Limited Edition C50 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 101	I forgot to mention that it was around 90 degrees here yesterday and very humid.

06-08-2005, 11:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
fjm3rd Seat Tester Joined: Apr 2005 Bike: c50 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 98	I believe I have to turn up the idle a little more. It's only around 1000 RPM's according to the Tach. Can't really tell for sure cause the needle bounces to much. I believe I read somewhere that it should be 1100 to 1200 RPM's By looking at the Tach and the way the numbers are spaced I honestly don't think it's near that. I'll give it a try one more time. Was at the dealer today they said if it keeps happening bring it in. One thing they did tell me was to use higher octane then 87. They heard it pinging when they took it for a test ride I heard it a little bit but didn't put 2 and 2 together. So I'll try 89 and if it still acts up I guess I got to go to 93 octane. But I know I still have to turn the idle up. Just curious what octane other people are using.

06-08-2005, 11:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
c50tiger Can Ride And Chew Gum Joined: Aug 2004 Bike: 2005 C50 Location: Selma, Alabama Posts: 2,058	Suggestion: if available - take it to a different dealer. Sounds like these guys are trying to dodge a warranty fix. As I noted, I've never had a stall problem at all and have never put anything in the tank but 87 octane. And that includes getting stuck in traffic on a two lane road behind a school bus that stopped every 25 yards for 5 miles in 100+ temps late last summer. Only time I've ever noticed the cooling fan switch on. And my manual states idle at operating temps will be 1000rpm to 1200rpm, so you may want to get them to actually try and fix the problem before you go messin' round with that throttle stop screw. __________________ Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams COGITO EGGO SUM: I think, therefore I am... a waffle

06-09-2005, 02:12 AM	#11 (permalink)
trini0 Needs an Identity Joined: Jan 2005 Bike: Bad C50 blk Location: Ft. Lauderdale FL, USA Posts: 436	The cooling fan on my C50 comes on all the time. I've been using 87 octane, and the temps have been in the mid 80s to mid 90s with lots of humidity, in stop and go traffic. The only time it stalls, is when I dont use the clutch/gear/gas properly. Other than that, its been running like a champ thus far. I 2nd the motion to get another opinion... __________________ Ride to Work, Work to Ride

06-09-2005, 05:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
Danr Sit speling cheker Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1,616	Pinging ? The dealer said they heard it ping and said try 89 octane.... strange A fuel injected engine you would think would not ping period. Do you gas up at the same place all the time ? if so,I would go some where else for a couple of tank fulls of 87 O and see the results. if your still pinging and stalling i would suspect the FI processor and or a sensor out of whack. hope this helps

06-09-2005, 08:18 AM	#14 (permalink)
jcronk23 Newbie Joined: Jun 2005 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 5	I was utterly stunned when I bought my bike this weekend to see the recommendation of 87 Octane on a 9.4:1 compression...it seems correct, but I don't know why they wouldn't just put 93 in the book considering the operating parameters of such a small engine... I personally feel there are better detergents in 93 or sunoco 94 and it's worth the extrat 50 cents when I fill up a 4.1 gallon tank. Plus I am just used to having to put super in my cars...to avoid detonation under boost. Granted this bike is water cooled and shouldn't have wild heat variations as an air cooled does....but why not just say 93 to cover their butts? If this thing comes from the factory on the lean side why risk detonation on a COOLER day. I hate to say it but for a FI bike to come Lean from the factory..I don't know why they didn't try to sneak an oxygen sensor on the thing to adjust a fuel map in 3D...instead of 2D reading from tables looked up according to a TPS and a coolant temp sensor... The bike definately should be more prone to pinging on a cooler day than a warmer one due to a denser air charge coming in...you should be running richer on a hot day. Plus I am just used to having to put super in my cars...to avoid detonation under boost. J- __________________ Justin '05 C50 '82 Yamaha Maxim XJ550 90 Dodge Daytona Shelby-2.2L 28lbs of Boost! 88 Dodge Daytona Shelby- T-Tops 90 Chrysler Lebaron Vert- 3.0 V6 03 Hyundai XG300-hey it's got heated seats... Last edited by jcronk23; 06-09-2005 at 08:27 AM.

06-09-2005, 08:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
mr_resistible Wants Better Weather Joined: Dec 2004 Bike: 05' C50 Location: Gering Ne Posts: 665	I get 85 and 87 all the time. Never had any problems pinging. We have ethanol in our fuel here in Nebraska (corn alcahol) and the higher octane fuels contain more ethanol. I think up to 20% and in some cases that will actually casue a ping especially on hot days. __________________ ]

06-10-2005, 12:02 AM	#16 (permalink)
c50tiger Can Ride And Chew Gum Joined: Aug 2004 Bike: 2005 C50 Location: Selma, Alabama Posts: 2,058	The manual plainly states that ehtanol blended fuels may be used if the ethanol content is not greater than 10%. Using a higher percentage blend may jeapordize your new vehicle warranty and the emmissions control system warranty. (Methanol blend limited to 5%). FI has little to do with pinging - my Rodeo will often ping running on 87, but not on 89. My cooling fan may run more frequently, but I don't notice it. I only noticed it that once because I was mostly stopped, coast forward 20 feet or so and stop, and repeat until you turn blue from breathing the exhaust of the POS cage in front of you. __________________ Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams COGITO EGGO SUM: I think, therefore I am... a waffle

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