Do you know what to do?

[inspiron]

For some of us, it's been a few years since we last took a First Aid class.

Taking an example from what Dale wrote recently, imagine that you are out riding, come around a corner to find a biker down.

Do you know what to do? And in what order to do things?

Here's what I would do, based upon my fire department training:

Priority 1 - Personal Safety! Make sure that I'm not putting myself in danger (If I get hurt, I can't help the other rider). Secure the scene - make sure that traffic coming from both sides is slowing or stopped (as needed).

Priority 2 - Assess the situation. Is the biker concious? Is he breathing? Is he bleeding? Is he in pain? Or in shock? Try to stop any major bleeding (to prevent the person from bleeding to death while you call for help).

Priority 3 - Call for assistance - 911 in the US, 112 in Europe. Let them know what has happened and where (as precisely as possible). Describe the injuries, the number of people involved, and if you need the fire department, an ambulance (or coroner), a helicopter, and/or the police.

Priority 4 - Tend to the injuries. Don't move the biker unless it is ABSOLULTELY necessary. Talk with him (if he is concious), keep him calm, and keep him from trying to stand up. If the skin is cool and pale, try to elevate the legs - these are signs of a shock. If there is no hope, then cover the body parts to spare other people from having to see that.

Priority 5 - When the professional help arrives, brief them quickly, and then get out of the way, unless they explicitly ask for your help to hold an IV or something. When the police arrive, tell them what you found and what you saw. Don't be judgemental, keep to the facts.


In my 25 years of driving, I have never been the first on the scene of a traffic accident with injuries. I hope that I never will be, but it is definitely a possibility, especially as a biker who is out on the road more than most other people (during the summer months).

So, now it's your turn ... do I have my priorities straight? Have I missed anything? Do you find this information valuable?

[87gsxrnut]

Don't be judgemental, keep to the facts.

Absolutely.

FACTS AS I TOLD THEM TO POLICE:

That MFer F-ED up man! He must-a been going 120 around that 30-mph curve. SHEEEEEEEEEEEEET - he didn't even have his helmet on. Trying to copy my fashion statements. What a loser. I was following him until I passed him about 200 ft. back. I musta been hitting this turn at at least 130+

That sissy couldn't even hang man! I wuz draggin' my knee all the way through this corner. See the tears in my jeans man? MFer deserves what came his way, trying to slide the bike through this corner on bald tires like mine. He should'uve learnt he caint haing wit me!

Now, I'm heading to sportbike night to hook up wid da bros man. LATE!

- Nut

[LayinLo]

Great work, Inspiron. (I'm a paramedic so I read through to make sure your info was accurate.)

A few more things to consider:

1.) If you suspect a head and/or neck injury DO NOT remove the biker's helmet unless it interferes with the victim's airway.
A good way around having to take the helmet off, is to place some object (examples: your jacket, extra shirt, etc) under the victims shoulder blades to elevate them enough to keep the airway open and the spine in a straight line.

2.) If the patient does not have a pulse, perform chest compressions for at least 1 minute before leaving the scene to call for help.
Never leave a scene where you have provided any type of medical help until you are relieved by someone more qualified than yourself. Most states will hold You liable for anything positive or negative that happens to this victim. They can sue you for abandonment and in some cases negligence.


3.) In case you didn't catch it the first time, Your personal safety in priority # 1.

[Freakinout]

The only time I was the first on the scene for a wreck, I had 911 on the phone before I even got to the two cars. Luckily the animal hospital across the road was just closing, so all of the people who worked there came to help. I didn't really have much knowledge on how to help either person, but I did have that trusty cell phone.

I think one guy in the wreck didn't ever really recover, last time I saw him he didn't seem like he had all his nuts and bolts. (I knew him in middle school)

[themeatmanlandry]

I'm only a First Responder, so LayinLo outranks me by a long shot. My small contribution:

Don't forget the ABCs

open Airway? (you may have to open it by using a head tilt/chin lift . . . be careful to move the head/neck only as much as you have to)
Breathing? (you may have to give CPR)
Circulation? (again . . the CPR)

Also, try to have someone (if there's enough help around) in charge of spinal immobilization. That person's job is to hold the head steady (assuming it doesn't have to be moved due to life-threatening injuries).

After a 4-wheeler accident a lady had around the corner a couple of years ago, I sat on my haunches (ask your mom . . she knows what that means ), holding spinal immobilization for what must have been 15 minutes or more. I remember watching mosquitoes land on me . . . bite me . . . fill up . . and fly away fat, dumb and happy. There was NO WAY I was going to let go of that lady's neck until I had a collar, though!

Lastly, maintain a safe scene. The very same traffic that injured the victim can take everyone on the scene in one fell swoop. Setting up some sort of barrier (automobiles work nicely) can protect you some. The main thing is not to let the other responders lose their sense of scene safety and start walking into traffic, unaware of the dangers due to the gravity of the situation they are dealing with.

Oh yeah . . . ride safe so you're the responder and not the victim.

[Nexus242]

After years of watching Emergency One I'd start with IV drip with D5W and lacteded ringers, imobilize the neck with a C-Spine. And the residents and interns on ER have told me that I need to run the blood gasss, Chem 7 and Chem 20 add a dip of urine, prep for a chest tube and get OR on the phone STAT!!!!!!

I am the ultimate TV doctor.

[RookWV]

Originally Posted by LayinLo_usmc

Most states will hold You liable for anything positive or negative that happens to this victim. They can sue you for abandonment and in some cases negligence.

Good Samaritan Laws were enacted (and all 50 states have some sort) to prevent lawsuits against those rendering aid unless it's been determined that there was gross negligence, some state laws even include trained professionals under this protection.

Leaving the scene, I would think, would constitute gross negligence. Most of the laws do say something about if you start rendering aid then you are required to continue until relieved or exhausted.

http://medi-smart.com/gslaw.htm

At the very least you should call 911.....remember that it could be you laying on the side of the road!

I've had the unfortunate chance of performing CPR on an eldery fellow on the golf course and let me tell you it's NOTHING like you see on TV, that is one of the most physically tiring activities you have ever done. Not to mention the mental tiredness that occurs.

In that case I did it for what seemed like an hour but I think it was more like 10-15min.....and sadly unsuccessfully.

[Gixxerdale]

I've been"First on the scene" several times now over the years, as the victim! If you ride alone, best learn first aid and how to apply to yourself. Damn hard to do with a clear head after a get off. But when no one is around, you need to be able to depend on yourself. I try to ride with at least one other rider. Can't always though. Lots of times I go solo. If you ride solo be prepared.

[prekarious1]

I teach CPR to young Marines and Sailors atleast once a week so would do allright. But I don't carry any response equipment with me

[Hardware]

Originally Posted by RookWV

...Leaving the scene, I would think, would constitute gross negligence. Most of the laws do say something about if you start rendering aid then you are required to continue until relieved or exhausted...

LayinLow's post was quite clear:

2.) If the patient does not have a pulse, perform chest compressions for at least 1 minute before leaving the scene to call for help

[RookWV]

Originally Posted by Hardware

LayinLow's post was quite clear:

I would call for help before doing anything.

[Freakinout]

Originally Posted by RookWV

I would call for help before doing anything.

Thats why cell phones are nice, You can talk on it while you are right next to the person in trouble... assuming you get cell phone service.

[Louis]

This is great info guys. Sticky!

[tlwisner]

Originally Posted by 87gsxrnut

Now, I'm heading to sportbike night to hook up wid da bros man. LATE!

- Nut

Word, Home-Nut.

[themeatmanlandry]

Originally Posted by RookWV

I've had the unfortunate chance of performing CPR on an eldery fellow on the golf course and let me tell you it's NOTHING like you see on TV, that is one of the most physically tiring activities you have ever done. Not to mention the mental tiredness that occurs.

In that case I did it for what seemed like an hour but I think it was more like 10-15min.....and sadly unsuccessfully.

I gave a dead guy (he was about cold when we made the scene) CPR for about 20 minutes one night. I started CPR in the apartment, and continued in the back of an ambulance on the way to the hospital. He passed anyway, but at least I tried.

Like RookWV said, it ain't like it looks on TV. Ribs crack . . . the guy's nasty-a**ed cigarette breath kept emanating from the corpse . . . it was pretty sad. He had died in the middle of the night because he was poor and something happened to his medical coverage to where he didn't get his insulin.

Interesting thing, though . . . we had him hooked to the heart monitor (it recommended CPR as opposed to shock), and as we (my partner Curtis and I) were giving him CPR (me the chest compressions and Curt-O pumped the ambu bag), you could hear (and see) the heartbeats register on the monitor. At least I knew I was effective!

Another spooky thing is . . . I SWEAR the guy's corpse started warming up while we were doing CPR. I swear it. My best guess is that, as the body began to receive oxygen again, some of the life processes began generating internal heat again. Spooky.

I knew he was toast as soon as we entered the bedroom. Poor guy.

[SeattleKatana]

GREAT STUFF!!!!!! Thanks for the info!!!!!

[axel_2078]

I worked at the Beau Rivage casino in Biloxi, MS for a while when it was under construction. As I was leaving one night, I noticed a bunch of people standing around a crowd yelling something. I walked over to see what was going on and there was a man lying in a concrete vat (it looked like a small in-ground swimming pool). Apparently he was working a few stories up. Well, the I-beams had thin, plastic covers that ran across them. What purpose that serves, I'm not sure, but I guess the plastic blocked his view of the beam and he fell right off and into that concrete vat. His head was cracked open and the vat was covered in blood and the poor guy was mumbling for help. An ambulance picked him up a few minutes later, but he was pronounced dead on arrival.

[LayinLo]

Originally Posted by RookWV

Good Samaritan Laws were enacted (and all 50 states have some sort) to prevent lawsuits against those rendering aid unless it's been determined that there was gross negligence, some state laws even include trained professionals under this protection.

Leaving the scene, I would think, would constitute gross negligence. Most of the laws do say something about if you start rendering aid then you are required to continue until relieved or exhausted.

You are correctthat we have Good Samaritan Laws in all fifty states. Most say that you are protected from liabilty if you act in good faith, it is not negligent, you act within your scope of practice, and you do not accept payment for services rendered. I was trying to warn people not to leave if they get tired, grossed out, scared, etc.

Originally Posted by RookWV

At the very least you should call 911.....remember that it could be you laying on the side of the road!

There are two rules pertaining to this statement:

1.) If the victim is an adult, perform CPR for 1 minute and then call for help. This assumes that you do not have a cell phone or alternate means of contacting the correct EMS. I stated this because you never know when you cell phone will die, or you may not have any reception.
2.) If the victim is a child, call 911 (Europe 112) immediately before providing CPR.

Here is a link to help with questions you may have regarding your states legal aspects:

CPR Legal Link


If you have any questions or concerns feel free to post them and I will help in any way possible.

[Darxide]

what happens if you wake up to some fat guy giving you CPR? are you gay then?

[Gixxerdale]

Originally Posted by Darxide

what happens if you wake up to some fat guy giving you CPR? are you gay then?

I wouldn't know, are you?