How to turn when leaving a stand still stop

[tricker]

*turns around passing by geoff and walks out of the room*

[themeatmanlandry]

-----

[inspiron]

Um. Yea.

Landry - 5 minutes in the penalty box for indecent exposure.

Rickster - Don't provoke Landry. He's got Lennox Lewis on his side.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Rickster

So you don't mind people giving bad advice that is likely to get someone hurt if/when they follow it, that's interesting, I'll have to keep that in mind when reading your posts in the future.

Rickster....buddy......I absolutely agree that blatantly wrong statements need to be corrected......or at least that an opposing opinion needs to be stated......
BUT......
It is possible to do it without insulting or berating the PERSON who posted the original statement. Really it is.

I have been on the wrong side of that line a few times and this time I think you were too.

[Clint]

Where are you guys getting the "insulting and berating" from? Seriously. I want specifics.

Landry, dude, I'm at a complete loss here. Seems to me you're the one drawing empty conclusions. I don't get it.

[themeatmanlandry]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Landry, dude, I'm at a complete loss here. Seems to me you're the one drawing empty conclusions. I don't get it.

I am floored that you aren't seeing it. What empty conclusion have I drawn? That volt made a simple comment, or that the response was rude?

Here's my take:

volt came here and made a simple statement. It was taken and turned on its ear. It went from "don't use your brakes in a slow turn or you'll go down" (which I read as a quick tip, not a hard-and-fast rule) to "volt is recommending that people not use their front brakes, because he misunderstood what his MSF instructor told him." I just don't see where volt was giving bad advice that others will read here and follow. It seems to me that our longer-term members were putting words in his/her mouth in order to make themselves heard and show how smart and safe of a motorcyclist they are.

. . . and when you get right down to it, it's not even the fact that the poor poster's original statement was so awkwardly misconstrued as much as it is the rudeness of the response.


It appears to me that the only thing we've accomplished is to drive off a potential member.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by Volt

Whatever you do: Do not use the front brake in a slow turn. It will take you right down to the ground.

What's not hard-and-fast, concrete, and plain wrong about that? It needed correction, IMO. So did his tendency to dispense bad advice. That in itself is a plague upon the internet.

I guess we disagree.

[tricker]

ok... maybe i'm off topic but still on topic? I actually stopped to think what i did. So i have this downhill road and then a quick right hand turn at the very end before the highway. I realized that I actually use both brakes at the very end while turning to make sure i take enough speed off. Granted i'm under 15mph but that's what i do in that situation.

[themeatmanlandry]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

What's not hard-and-fast, concrete, and plain wrong about that? It needed correction, IMO. So did his tendency to dispense bad advice. That in itself is a plague upon the internet.

I guess we disagree.

Like I said, I see that as just a statement, as opposed to a widely-applicable rule of motorcycling. It's not like he wrote that in a book. Earlier in this thread, you noted that someone had reduced their risk by about a factor of 10

Can that be backed up, or were you just making a statement? What if some new rider goes out and thinks he's about 10 times safer than the next guy just because he practiced some u-turns and figure 8s in a parking lot?

Now do you see my point?

I have this fear that speaking face-to-face with forum people would become a bogged quagmire of who-said-what-when and whether or not it was 100% correct and whether it was meant in jest, said in haste, meant to be taken with a grain of salt and/or a hard-and-fast fact that should be chiseled in stone for the coming generations . . . all while a select handful coach people back on topic.

[Clint]

Making an obviously exaggerated observation isn't the same as telling people what never to do and what will happen if you do it.

That's all I got.

[themeatmanlandry]

The casual observer may not know the difference between the two.

[EDIT] That is to say that I read them both as just the statements of an individual on an internet forum, nothing more.

[Thundurburd]

I don't want to take sides here, I think I see both points of view.

From Ride Like a Pro IV DVD Jerry Palladino says that on "any low speed maneuvers lay off the front brake. If you happen to touch the front brake when your handlebars are turned even slightly it will pull you to the ground like a magnet. ...rely on the rear brake, it helps you control the bike at slow speeds."

In the case of the types of things you do in parking lot practice I think I would agree. Does anyone else see this point as an issue?

On the other hand I found out when I started riding again that I used the rear brake far too much. It was a hard habit to break but with a deliberate effort I learned to use the front break for most of my braking. Still, the one time my butt got tossed into the weeds it was partly because of too much rear brake.

Anyways, that's how I see it. Each side of the argument is correct as far as it goes, it's just that different issues are being discussed. Hard fast rules with words like "never" or "always" can generally be good most of the time, but never always.

[Thundurburd]

Another thought here. You can find all kinds of info on the internet, some of which (maybe most) is absolute crap. In my opinion it takes a period of time and experience to sort out where to find the good stuff and what to ignore. During my year on this site I have found that I agree with some members more than others. Despite their apparent differences on the topic in this thread, I find both Rickster and Landry pretty reliable when it comes to motorcycle advice.

Ok, I admit, Landry does get a little nutty at times, but that's not when he's on a bike.

[inspiron]

Never use the words always or never!

[geoffsimpson]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

You're on the Dark Side by default.

I can't tell which is the dark side anymore Clint...

And it's different on every bike. One can't stand there and state, for a fact that this will or will not happen. Take the M50 for example...it's brakes are little more than two coconut husks grinding against a stone. I use the front brake often in my slow speed maneuvers...because i can. NOW...my wifes babyblade: You even look at that front brake and you're going down...it nose dives and drops, the rear break is your friend here.

[themeatmanlandry]

It's strange how the point has shifted from "whether or not a comment was meant as off-the-cuff and the rude responses given to said comment" to "whether or not it is a good idea to EVER use the front brake at slow speeds."

[tricker]

I have no idea what is going on anymore...

[geoffsimpson]

Originally Posted by themeatmanlandry

It's strange how the point has shifted from "whether or not a comment was meant as off-the-cuff and the rude responses given to said comment" to "whether or not it is a good idea to EVER use the front brake at slow speeds."

Isn't that where the whole thing started?

[themeatmanlandry]

Originally Posted by geoffsimpson

Isn't that where the whole thing started?

Yeah.

[Rickster]

Looks like this horse has been beat to death & I don't see that we are solving anything, just going in circles so I'm just going to drop out.

FYI, I have met face to face with about a dozen members now, and it was ALWAYS a very pleasant experience, and LANDRY, I suspect that even you & I would get along just fine. Typed comments can often be misunderstood. Rick extends his hand in friendship.