Deadly Dozen, the motorcycle safety myths and urban legends.

[azkober]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

That's just it... a few decades ago, 300lbs was full size. Read some of the motorcycle authors from the 60's and 70's and you'll be shocked at what they traversed the nation on. To me, 800 lbs plus isn't "adult", it's "absurd". Frankly, if driver's training doesn't prepare you to pilot a motorhome, why should rider education be any different?

Good point. But drivers training usually uses average sized cars. I haven't seen a 250 on the road anywhere else other than at the MSF course.

As far as the absurdity of 800lb bikes goes, I guess that's why they make different types of bikes. Actually, since I've recently added a lot of chrome etc, I'd guess the weight at a bit over 900lbs now.

Not too many of us old farts tooling their wives around on lightweight 1000cc sport bikes in these parts but I can show you a couple dozen 70 year olds cruising the highways around here on their Goldwings etc. My In Laws went from Arizona to Canada and back on their Goldwing a few years ago. They were in their 70's. One of my friends is 72 and still cruises on his Pan Head Harley (whenever he can get the thing started, lol!). The main reason I even bought a motorcycle was to travel a bit and spend time with my wife. I never felt the desire to race from stoplight to stoplight on a crotch rocket. I guess comfort has it's price.

I'm signing up for the intermediate course in a few weeks and I'll be using my own bike for that. I expect to learn a lot about riding my bike and to become a much better rider after that.

[Clint]

You keep mentioning the liter sportbikes as though it's the only other bike made. Surely you're not ignorant of the huuuuge range of motorcycles in between it and yours, right?

[inspiron]

Weight is only one factor of the equation. My bike weighs about 560 lbs (255 kg), but is no problem to handle because the center of gravity (CG) is well-placed. My old bike was only 328 lbs (149 kg) but it was "harder" for me to handle because the CG was too high (IMO). The bike was too light and too "nervous" around curves - the additional 100kg of my GSX make it much more pleasant to ride, and gives me more confidence in the twisties. And the additional 90 horsepower don't hurt either.

But as Clint said, there are bikes of all shapes and sizes available. The Kawasaki ER-6N, for example, weighs only 318 lbs (173 kg) and has a 650 ccm engine putting out about 70 hp. A nice little bike ... today. Up until about 10 years ago, those specs would have made it a super-sport racing bike!

Today's "starter" bike is a 600/650 bike with 50+ horsepower. Back in the '70s and '80s, riders started out on a 2-stroke 125ccm that may have generated 15 horsepower, then moved up to a 250 or 400ccm bike. Back then, a Harley was a "monster" with it's 1200ccm Shovelhead engine. Today, Yamaha offers the MT-01 with an 1800ccm V-2 ... an no one even really takes notice.

[azkober]

The original post I was referring to said beginners should buy a small used learner bike before buying their dream bike. The point I'm (apearantly not very successfuly) making is that this may make sense for some but not all.

If your dream bike is a go-fast-as-hell crotch rocket, then yea, learn how to handle something less powerful first before you kill yourself. They ingridient here being horse power.

In my case, the little 250cc learner bike didn't prepare me at all for what it was like to eventually handle the bike I now ride. The key ingridient here is weight.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

More experience [on a smaller bike] would have allowed you to use the bike's controls to balance it more effectively.

I hear you. That's still my response.

[Uncle B]

Bikers wear black leather because they want to look cool.

When you observe motorcyclists in groups, you'll soon become aware that black is the most prominent color: Black leather jackets, black gloves, black boots, black pants, black chaps, even a lot of black motorcycles.
Sure, black leather looks cool. There have even been a few fashion trends recently that featured black everything -- that motorcycle look. However, no rider wears black leather to look cool. Well, maybe a few do but we call them wannabes or poseurs.

Leather is the best protective covering for a rider. It usually comes in black. When you're riding at 65 mph just inches above the ground, you want something on that will keep the pavement away from your skin should you happen to become separated from the machine and hit the ground.
These days, other materials than leather are also being used such as synthetic jackets and pants. These have built-in armor in elbows, shoulders, and back. They are lighter and cool better in hot weather. There are more color choices now but black is still the most prominent color.
Black is not a cool color to be wearing after dark. You can't see it! The newer synthetic jackets are now coming with multiple reflective patches that make you highly visible at night.

[S83]

Textiles with armor and leather with armor are best. I don't believe either has an advantage over the other. The key is armor. Reflective material a real plus at night, overcast, or rainy conditons. Obviously makes you more visible.

I can remember when a 250 was a big bike! When my dad bought his new Suzuki 305 (2 stroke), that was a monster bike! How times change.

I fear 700 plus pound motorcycles have become the SUV's of motorcycles. Some seem to think bigger (heavier, bulkier) is better. At what point does a motorcycle become a land yacht?

[Dave Nadeau]

Weight of land yacht!!... I do know that I rode a 07 HD street glide at about 800 # vs my C50 at about 650# or so and the bumps did not feel as bad on the Harley. The handling was not as quick as the C50 but each machine has its place in the bike world. If I were a serious cruzer going out for a week or so I would rather have the HD over my C 50. My C50 felt like a 10 speed after the Street Glide...but in a good way.

[Uncle B]

You will eventually get hurt or killed on a motorcycle.

If you don't come from a motorcycle family and decide that you want to learn to ride a motorcycle, usually you get lots of advice from your family.
They will tell you, "Motorcycles are dangerous."
They'll call them murder-cycles or donor-cycles.
They'll remind you that, "Uncle Ed got killed on a motorcycle.
You stay away from motorcycles.
You'll get killed too."
Now a certain amount of caution is OK so long as it's constructive.
They fail to mention that there are many old riders on the road who have been riding 35-60 years and are still alive.
They don't know about all the advances in safety in the last 20 years. Bikes now have disc brakes. Some even have ABS brakes. Most riders are getting trained to ride safely through the programs of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF).
If you come from a motorcycle family, you're still not home free. They will encourage you to ride but they may give you bad advice or worse yet, try to teach you to ride. Don't ever let a loved one teach you to ride. Worst of all is learning totally on your own.
Level the odds by learning all you can about the proper way to ride a motorcycle. Let the MSF teach you. Then get an experienced trusted friend who is also MSF trained to go out with you as you practice. Wear protective apparel and a helmet. You CAN learn to be a safe rider and manage the risks of riding.

[inspiron]

Originally Posted by Uncle B

Bikers wear black leather because they want to look cool.

Another reason, which you didn't mention, is that black is easiest to "maintain". Brightly colored leathers or textiles are only brightly colored for a couple of rides, then they begin to get gray and dirty. Black is less sensitive - you don't see the exhaust particles, oil droplets, insect splats and other things that a rider "collects" on a typical ride. If you see someone riding in brilliant white or yellow leathers, they are either on their way home from the shop where they just bought them, or they are "poseurs" who are trying to look cool, but don't really ride their motorcycle.

[inspiron]

Originally Posted by Uncle B

You will eventually get hurt or killed on a motorcycle.

Have you ever heard of ANYONE who has managed to live more than 112 years? Everyone is going to die eventually. Depending upon your personal beliefs, it may be possible that the date of your (or my) death has already been determined - we just don't know it (yet). I don't know how much longer I have ... a minute? an hour? a year? 50 years? Since I don't know when my time is up, I'm going to make the most of every minute. And riding my motorcycle brings me pleasure, so I'm going to do it. And if I get killed on my next ride ... at least I died doing something I love. I'd rather be killed quickly on a motorcycle than to waste away in an old-age home...

Whew, I'm feeling morbid tonight...

[TumbleWeed]

Been watching...very interesting. I have been riding over 30 years, with nine of those in Europe with the military. Started with dirt bikes, first street bike was the 250 rebel when it first came out, than a Honda CB650 then a HD Road King, Now my 06 Ultra. I agree with most everything but with comments. (of course)

Loud Pipes. Nobody mentioned critters. Living WAY out in the Texas sticks, I can testify that my stock pipes are not nearly loud enough for deer. They work OK for rabbits though.

Helmets. A necessary Evil. I like riding without one, but I do so very rarely, and under as controlled of circumstances as I can.

Big Bikes. A Royal Star is not a beginners bike, it is however a beautiful machine. In Azkober's defense though, when I traded in my King for the Electra, I dripped the Glide twice in the same day doing low speed maneuvers. It is just plain top heavy.

I also promptly got the "Ride Like a Pro" series and completely re-thought my actions on this big bike. My wife and I have rode to Ohio and to NM since then.

Black Leather. I saw an ad somewhere for a black leather jacket where the seams were reflective, looked normal in daylight, glowed at night. I wear black leather, can't see me very well, but I have every light on the bike I can find and want to add more.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by S83

Textiles with armor and leather with armor are best. I don't believe either has an advantage over the other.

I respectfully disagree. While both my primary jackets and both pants are textile, it's been shown time and again that leather is far superior in abrasion resistance. There's a good reason that racers wear kangaroo leather, even in hot climates. No textile (of reasonable cost) has come close.

Yes, armor is important, but the majority of body injury in a low-speed solo crash is skin abrasion.

[inspiron]

You're talking about two different things.

CE protectors (armor) is there to cushion an impact, which may help prevent breaking your elbow or shoulder when it first hits the ground. Once your down and sliding, the protectors don't help - that's what the leather or textile abrasion and heat protection should do.

[Ol Doofus]

I agree whole heartedly. When I told my wife I was going to get another bike, she had a cow. I mentioned a few friends of ours that had various illness's and were on their last leg. I told her just what you said. If its my time out here with these blind idiots on their cell phones, then thats the way it will be

[Uncle B]

Harley-Davidson motorcycles leak oil and break down a lot.

Tales of leaking and breakdowns tend to relate to bikes of the AMF era between 1969-1981.

That was 25 years ago. And I'm sure we'll hear from owners of many of these AMF bikes that they haven't had any problems at all.

So, if you've been waiting for Harley to come out with a machine that's reliable and doesn't leak oil, you've been missing a lot of fun.

[rbonner]

Originally Posted by inspiron

Another reason, which you didn't mention, is that black is easiest to "maintain". Brightly colored leathers or textiles are only brightly colored for a couple of rides, then they begin to get gray and dirty. Black is less sensitive - you don't see the exhaust particles, oil droplets, insect splats and other things that a rider "collects" on a typical ride. If you see someone riding in brilliant white or yellow leathers, they are either on their way home from the shop where they just bought them, or they are "poseurs" who are trying to look cool, but don't really ride their motorcycle.

I don't know. My jacket and helmet both have alot of yellow. When its above 50 and not greater than a 50% chance of rain I ride to work. Thats a little over a hundred miles if I just ride to work and back. So far my jacket hasn't really faded. I do admit to having to clean it almost everytime I ride. The bugs do show up well, and the entire jacket isn't all yellow..... I also wipe down the helmet though.... I hate bugs

[moto_live]

You know, some biker must really read this Myth 1.



_______________
harry

[Scoot52]

Originally Posted by Ol Doofus

I If its my time out here with these blind idiots on their cell phones, then thats the way it will be

I've heard that married men live longer - but they're more willing to die. My concern is coming away paralyzed or other wise impaired

[Basso]

Originally Posted by azkober

The original post I was referring to said beginners should buy a small used learner bike before buying their dream bike. The point I'm (apearantly not very successfuly) making is that this may make sense for some but not all.

If your dream bike is a go-fast-as-hell crotch rocket, then yea, learn how to handle something less powerful first before you kill yourself. They ingridient here being horse power.

In my case, the little 250cc learner bike didn't prepare me at all for what it was like to eventually handle the bike I now ride. The key ingridient here is weight.

I'm a brand new rider and I bought a new M50. It's pretty close to the dream bike, and here was my reasoning:
At 550 lbs, it is substantial enough to be less prone to wind gusts on the highway than a lighter bike. The power is sufficient to propel me very quickly to 75 mph with lots of throttle left...Clearly I don't need more. Its small enough to get decent fuel mileage, and it looks nice.

I might drop it (haven't yet), but if I do, so be it. Even if I had a different bike first, I'd still potentially drop it. Being careful and paying attention to what I'm doing seems to be more important. Also, its a hobby and it costs money. If I drop it, I'll have a good reason to upgrade.

If I get another bike, It will probably be more of a sport-touring bike, or an adventure bike like the v-strom. As of now, I don't see any need for more power or weight.