Deadly Dozen, the motorcycle safety myths and urban legends.

[Uncle B]

Myth 12; A Skilled Rider Can Stop Better with Conventional Brakes than with Anti-Lock Brakes:

Extensive testing done recently disproves this popular notion.

Even on clean, dry, flat pavement, skilled, experienced riders (who did hundreds of panic stops for the testing on outrigger-equipped motorcycles) stopped in less distance with anti-lock brakes (ABS) than with conventional or linked braking systems.

Though the tests didn't include samples on surfaces with slick, dirty or wet spots, ABS certainly would have performed even better under those conditions while eliminating much of the risk of crashing.

The other cool thing about ABS on a motorcycle is that allows you to safely practice panic stops without risking a crash caused by lock-up.

Anyway, the next time someone tells you that he had to "lay it down" or that green bikes crash more than purple ones, you can nod and snicker internally or challenge them.

Just don't base your own riding choices on what other people assume unless their is some solid science to back it up.

[inspiron]

I agree that ABS is a big improvement for motorcycle safety, but sadly, the industry still sees this as an "optional extra" instead of standard equipment. On those few models where it is offered, you have to spend about $300 more for ABS. And some companies (notably BMW) have problems that the ABS needs to be "re-booted" sometimes, so it may not work when you really need it.

At my safety training last year, there was a guy with a BMW touring bike that had an ABS that wasn't properly balanced. He went into a panic stop and put this big, heavy bike into a 30° stoppie. The front didn't lock up, but the bike shouldn't have lifted the rear that far off the ground, either. The instructor had a look of shock on his face - the rider just smiled, because he had experienced that a few times before.

[Alan_Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Uncle B

Believing that your superior skills will keep you of trouble is a pipe dream, even if they are as good as you think.

But if it's a loud pipe dream wouldn't the combination of two myths increase your chances of surviving?

Sorry - I'm new here and I've got a weird sense of humor!

[inspiron]

Welcome Alan! I think you'll do just fine around here. The weird ones get along best.

[Clint]

LOL. Good one, Alan.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Uncle B

Myth 12; A Skilled Rider Can Stop Better with Conventional Brakes than with Anti-Lock Brakes:

Don't know if you're refering to canadian testing done last year but yes antilock brakes ( especially linked ) do improve braking by allowing maximum braking pressure to both wheels without lockup.

Fastest braking is achieved through the use of both brakes, even though most is done by the front wheel the extra stopping power of the rear wheel does make a difference in braking disance.

Most riders rely on one or the other and in a panic situation (adrenaline spike ) using both at the same time to their maximum capability is highly unlikely.

The study also surprised a few with braking results by type of bike, most assuming that "R" bikes with multipiston brakes would slow the lighter bikes much faster.

The results actually showed that heavier cruisers stopped faster even using cruder braking systems. The extra weight and geometry of the cruisers kept more weight on the rear wheel and flatter profile tires more rubber on the road.

They also compared braking results with that of cars and found that contrary to popular belief many cars can stop in shorter distances than motorcycles.

So the reassuring feeling many riders have of being able to outbrake cars on the road as a justification for tailgating is just that a "feeling".

[S83]

This is a great thread. Maybe made a sticky?

[Uncle B]

Any group of riders is part of the Hell's Angels.

People on the street seeing bikes go by and not familiar with the world of motorcycling, can sometimes be heard to say, "There goes a bunch of Hell's Angels."

We offer no disrespect to the members of the Hell's Angels by reporting this.
Perhaps, in some small way, we don't mind being compared with the Hell's Angels.
We may have a rebellious spirit.
We may like the freedom of riding and the camaraderie of other riders.
But most of us either ride alone or with small clubs of like-minded individuals.
We have no innate desire to separate ourselves into a lifestyle that may ultimately bring us face-to-face with a disrespect for our own society.

[bajaraider]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Don't know if you're refering to canadian testing done last year but yes antilock brakes ( especially linked ) do improve braking by allowing maximum braking pressure to both wheels without lockup.

Fastest braking is achieved through the use of both brakes, even though most is done by the front wheel the extra stopping power of the rear wheel does make a difference in braking disance.

Most riders rely on one or the other and in a panic situation (adrenaline spike ) using both at the same time to their maximum capability is highly unlikely.

The study also surprised a few with braking results by type of bike, most assuming that "R" bikes with multipiston brakes would slow the lighter bikes much faster.

The results actually showed that heavier cruisers stopped faster even using cruder braking systems. The extra weight and geometry of the cruisers kept more weight on the rear wheel and flatter profile tires more rubber on the road.

They also compared braking results with that of cars and found that contrary to popular belief many cars can stop in shorter distances than motorcycles.

So the reassuring feeling many riders have of being able to outbrake cars on the road as a justification for tailgating is just that a "feeling".

Good points, I did not know about the stopping dist vs cars. Glad to know it now!

Where have you been?!?

[bajaraider]

Originally Posted by Uncle B

Myth 10: It's Better to Stay in Your Lane than Split Lanes

In most parts of the world, motorcycles split lanes all the time, everywhere traffic is heavy. Here in the U.S., people often act as if lane-splitting is insane. But when someone actually studied it in the only place in the U.S. where it's legal (California), they discovered it's actually slightly safer than staying in the lane in heavy, slow-moving traffic. Still many motorcyclists berate others who do it, when they should in fact be endorsing it.

Did it this morn for the first time. There was a wreck on the exit ramp of the freeway. I just slowly, and cautiously, creeped my way down the shoulder, then merged back into the crowd to get around the wreck. I didn't want to be a sitting duck waiting for someone to come off the freeway and lock 'em up and rear end me.

[Clint]

I don't know if the shoulder qualifies as lane sharing in California (the only state where it isn't expressly illegal). I believe you must be in an actual travel lane.

[bajaraider]

good point.
I guess either way what I did was illegal Cali or Texas, but it made me feel more comfortable rather than sitting stareing into my mirrors. since it was an exit ramp, both sides were shoulders, but I chose the right since it seemed the wreck was on the left.

[Uncle B]

You should buy your dream bike for your first bike.
You start looking at all the new bikes out there and you quickly fall in love with your dream bike.
Usually, the bike is way more than you can handle as a beginner.

The point is that a beginner needs to keep their eye on the goal: Learn how to ride by taking an MSF course and then get a small used learner bike for six months to a year to practice riding skills. During this time a new rider will probably drop the bike several times, most in low speed or parking lot situations. These drops won't do much damage to the rider but could cause significant damage to plastic panels on the bike. A new bike will suffer the most damage cost.
Dream bikes may also have too much power for a newbie.
A simple momentary twist of the wrist going over a bump could cause a new bike to speed out of control or cross into an opposing lane of traffic too quickly for a newbie to respond.
So, as painful as it is, forego the dream bike until you become proficient in as many street skills as you can.

[azkober]

Originally Posted by Uncle B

You should buy your dream bike for your first bike.
You start looking at all the new bikes out there and you quickly fall in love with your dream bike.
Usually, the bike is way more than you can handle as a beginner.

The point is that a beginner needs to keep their eye on the goal: Learn how to ride by taking an MSF course and then get a small used learner bike for six months to a year to practice riding skills. During this time a new rider will probably drop the bike several times, most in low speed or parking lot situations. These drops won't do much damage to the rider but could cause significant damage to plastic panels on the bike. A new bike will suffer the most damage cost.
Dream bikes may also have too much power for a newbie.
A simple momentary twist of the wrist going over a bump could cause a new bike to speed out of control or cross into an opposing lane of traffic too quickly for a newbie to respond.
So, as painful as it is, forego the dream bike until you become proficient in as many street skills as you can.

I dunno about this one.

I bought my dream bike as my first bike 8 months ago, a heavy, 875lbs V-4 cruiser. I took the MSF course before I bought it. I dropped the bike a couple of times on the first day, each time while trying to turn the bike around from a dead stop. Only damage is a scratch or three on the very bottom of the front and rear crash bars. I haven't dropped the bike since that first day and have put almost 13,000 miles on it since, much of that with the wife on the back.

I'm well aware that I'm far from an experienced rider and ride accordingly. As Clint Eastwood once said " A man gots to know his limitations".

I think the situation is different with sport bikes. Seems to me to be much easier to get into serious trouble much faster on one of those puppies.

[azkober]

If you look at my picture galleries you'll see my wife and I practising in an empty High School parking lot. I lay out a number of different courses with tennis balls cut in half. This has helped us come a long way in maneuvering our bikes in parking lot situations. I never read or hear of anyone else doing something like this in this or other forums. Is it just because it ain't "cool" to admit that there is a need to hone one's skills or are all of you beyond the need for practice?

[Clint]

Many of us practiced as new riders, and some of us continue to do so. I used the local testing course during off hours. Apparently you haven't been around long enough to read about these cases. Heck, any time you read about someone taking the MSF Beginner course you know they've done a whole bunch of parking lot practicing, and under the guidance of trained coaches to boot. It's a statistical fact that self-taught riders are the second most dangerous group, only behind those taught by friends. I wonder how many bad habits you taught yourself?

The fact that you dropped your bike twice is testament enough for me that you started on too large of a bike. There's no reason anyone should expect to do that. It is common, but it's much less likely with a small bike.

[azkober]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Many of us practiced as new riders, and some of us continue to do so. I used the local testing course during off hours. Apparently you haven't been around long enough to read about these cases. Heck, any time you read about someone taking the MSF Beginner course you know they've done a whole bunch of parking lot practicing, and under the guidance of trained coaches to boot. It's a statistical fact that self-taught riders are the second most dangerous group, only behind those taught by friends. I wonder how many bad habits you taught yourself?

The fact that you dropped your bike twice is testament enough for me that you started on too large of a bike. There's no reason anyone should expect to do that. It is common, but it's much less likely with a small bike.

Maybe you misunderstood my previous post. Both my wife and I did take the MSF course. I didn't own a bike and therefore did not have the opportunity to do any parking lot practicing ahead of the course but we now practice what the course taught us precisely because we do not want to learn any "bad habits". Unfortunately I'm not rich enough to hire a pro to go out with us and teach us so I guess you can lump us in with that dangerous self taught crowd.

I also bought the "Ride like a Pro" DVD and set up practice runs using the setup as suggested.

I dropped the bike because I wasn't prepared for, and didn't allow for the huge difference in weight from the little 250cc machines used at the MSF course and my RSTD. Nothing at the MSF course prepared me for that. At the course I was able to manhandle their bike at a standstill and while backing up etc. My RSTD is simply too heavy for that and, before I had the lowering kit installed, I was barely able to reach the ground on my tiptoes. As soon as the bike started to lean one way or the other more than a few degrees, those 800plus pounds simply did what was natural and became way too much for me to try and stop from seeking Mother Earth.

[Clint]

Sorry. I didn't realize you had taken the courses (no sig pics). You obviously aren't self-taught.

About the heavy bike: More experience would have allowed you to use the bike's controls to balance it more effectively. I stand by my statement. The simple fact that they train you on light bikes should be your sign on that issue.

[azkober]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Sorry. I didn't realize you had taken the courses (no sig pics). You obviously aren't self-taught.

About the heavy bike: More experience would have allowed you to use the bike's controls to balance it more effectively. I stand by my statement. The simple fact that they train you on light bikes should be your sign on that issue.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but that's the one thing they could add to the basic course to make it better and more realistic. Learning to ride and handle a 300lb 250 Rebel did not prepare me in any way for what was in store for me. They should have a "real" sized bike available if for no other reason than to let students experience what it feels like to maneuver an adult sized bike in a parking lot. I would almost say that the difference between the bike I rode at the course and the bike I bought the day after graduation is the same as the difference between my mountain bike and the 250 at the course.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not critizising the course at all. It was a good starting point. I learned what I needed to get started and have used their training for the past 13,000 miles. I have no problems in Phoenix rush hour stop-and-go traffic on I-10 (even in the rip roaring rain last weekend) or on lonely single lane back roads out in the Sonoran Desert or negotiating curves at 55MPH on the winding road climbing up Mt. Lemmon, feeling the floorboards scrape the pavement ever so lightly once or twice.

I believe that starting out on a smaller, lighter, less powerful bike may make sense for someone who will eventually own and ride a sport bike. For example, when making a turn from a dead stop, one small twist of the throttle at the wrong time on a 1000cc sport bike can easily lead to disaster. Quite the opposite is true on a cruiser, especially a heavy one. Not twisting hard enough was my downfall twice in that situation.

[Clint]

That's just it... a few decades ago, 300lbs was full size. Read some of the motorcycle authors from the 60's and 70's and you'll be shocked at what they traversed the nation on. To me, 800 lbs plus isn't "adult", it's "absurd". Frankly, if driver's training doesn't prepare you to pilot a motorhome, why should rider education be any different?