Two Hayabusa's race.. strange out come

[busa-boy33]

Ok.. I will easly say that I don't know all that much about power commanders and such or the effect they have on bikes. Of course I read all the material out there dealing with them but still did not have one on my bike so I was not sure of the difference it could make.

So.. my brother in law yesterday wanted to go for a ride.. now he has the exact same busa 06 that I have.. the only difference is this..

His bike has: New exhaust and headers with a re-jet (thats all i know about that.. and not sure why he did all that with the exhaust..) he has a power commander also.. thats about it..

my bike: Just some bolt on Yoshi pipes.. thats all..


So we raced.. I stayed right on his back tire the whole time. He never took off and left me kinda like I expected for him to do..


now I need knowledgable thoughts on this.. anyone?

[intimid8er]

I think the answer to this is going to lie in the arena of the exhaust.

What type of exhaust did he put on the bike?

Is it a 4-2-2?

A 4-2-1?

A 4-2?

A 4-1 shorty?

The reason is.....depending on what he installed......he could've sacrificed top end for torque, or torque for top end, and made it up (barely) with the recalibration of the fuel/air ratio. In my experience (observation only) Hayabusa riders can be a vain bunch. There's a lot of Harley-esque peacocking and (not all, and no offense to you) preening in a gathering of 'Busa's. As such you see a lot of "trick" exhausts that are more for show than go.

That short stubby one sided exhaust that was observed in a magazine may look cool, but what's overlooked, is that magazine bike had a 500+ hp turbo bolted on, so any torque losses will be minimalized.

Granted the 'Busa is so damn strong that it won't matter what type of exhaust is on it in a heads up race against most other bikes. However, 'Busa to 'Busa without "radical" mods (engine work, turbos, superchargers), any gains will be minimal, and losses in the power curve will show up as glaring losses.

[Clint]

He couldn't have both a rejet and a PC. Maybe that's the problem. LOL.

[intimid8er]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

He couldn't have both a rejet and a PC. Maybe that's the problem. LOL.

I just kinda let that one slide on purpose...heh...heh......

[busa-boy33]

I thought you had to do a re-jet on the bike if you changed out the exhaust package? I dunno.. no idea at all. .I kept asking him "Did they really re-jet the bike???" and he says they did.. so what i think they did was just simply change the exhaust type then did whatever they do when you put on a PC.

I dunno guys.. I haven't gotten to indepth with it but i figured that even with his PC and exhaust he'd at least blow'd me off the road. Just wasn't the case here. I will do more homework on this and get back to you guys.

[intimid8er]

[shrugs]

I guess my theory was chopped liver...........

[busa-boy33]

Originally Posted by intimid8er

[shrugs]

I guess my theory was chopped liver...........

Not at all intimid8er.. I just lack knowledge of the bike I ride..lol..not a good thing. I should know that thing inside and out by now but have been slow to gain some good info on this bike.

[intimid8er]

{comes out of corner, trying to hide puffy red eyes}

{sniffs up some snot}

"You do care!?"



LOL

Anyway...on sportbikes as well as cruisers, there's always the age old debate of "what exhaust should I get for my bike?"

Hayabusa owners by and large seem to me as an outsider to have the same bike night bling coveting mentality as cruiser riders. They get pipe envy at the nearest gathering of like bikes, and make "informed" decisions by word of mouth and anecdotal evidence.

Translated: Some exhaust systems...no matter how cool they look or sound can actually be detrimental to the performance of your bike. Hence, it behooves the owner to research exhaustively or take an honest assessment of what he wants out of an exhaust system. Once that is done, plan accordingly for the corresponding mods. If you are going for looks and sound, chances are, performance is going to take a hit. Listening to someone else at a gathering without doing your own research ends up in projects like this:

I got X exhaust.
I got X fuel controller or jet kit.
I sound cool. Seat of the pants feels fast.

Reality is....you've lost something somewhere. Dyno will prove it.

More often than not the jet kit/ fuel controller brings back the power that was lost to the poor choice of exhaust.

On the flip side, if you carefully researched and thought out your purchase of systems with disregard for sound and vanity, then the fuel controller or jet kit is a bonus that keeps piling on the power in addition to the properly balanced exhaust.

The one paradox of exhausts is:

You get more horsepower by sacrificing torque.

You get more torque by sacrificing horsepower.

However, there is a compromise. The good systems won't claim ridiculous power gains, but rather a good strengthening of the horsepower and torque curves. It won't radically alter the look of those curves on a dyno sheet. Rather, it will mimic it, move it up, (higher numbers) and stretch it out a little more.

Have I confused ya yet????

[kay]

Tim, I understand and agree with you.

I know this in not about bikes, but when I was mod'ing my Z car to run in Bonneville, I had my exhaust changed from stock (four pipes, two on each side) to a 2-pipe stainless steel exhaust. It looked great and the sound was awesome.

But then, I had to have these changed again to another set that didn't look as good and didn't sound as good either but it gave me the best of torque and horse power. So great looks/sound do not necessarily mean faster bike/car.

But then some people want the better looks and a better sound so I agree that you need to know what you are looking for. Personally, I think the busas are so powerful and fast already that I don't quite understand why people want it even more powerful/faster. If there's a good rider, he'll out run you anyway no matter what you have. So you might as well practice better riding than spend money on tricks that make your bike more powerful than you ever needed anyway.

[shelby322]

what about rider skill. You will always get different results from 2 different riders.

just some food for thought

[kay]

Ya, that's what I was saying. You can get a power boosted bike and a good rider will still out run you on a stock bike. So? That means maybe it's better to spend money to polish up your skills rather than on stuff that makes a bike more powerful than what you need.

Well, just my thought.

[JmalB]

Originally Posted by busa-boy33

I thought you had to do a re-jet on the bike if you changed out the exhaust package? I dunno.. no idea at all. .I kept asking him "Did they really re-jet the bike???" and he says they did.. so what i think they did was just simply change the exhaust type then did whatever they do when you put on a PC.

I dunno guys.. I haven't gotten to indepth with it but i figured that even with his PC and exhaust he'd at least blow'd me off the road. Just wasn't the case here. I will do more homework on this and get back to you guys.

Re-jetting is for carburated bikes. The PC is for bikes with fuel injection. You can't have both. Some one got bilked.

That being said just because he has the PCIII on there, it doesn't mean it has the right fuel map. If i doesn't have the right map, it won't be able to properly exploit the exhaust. If there is an advantage to be had.

[kay]

Originally Posted by JmalB

Re-jetting is for carburated bikes. The PC is for bikes with fuel injection. You can't have both. Some one got bilked.

That being said just because he has the PCIII on there, it doesn't mean it has the right fuel map. If i doesn't have the right map, it won't be able to properly exploit the exhaust. If there is an advantage to be had.

Jamal, you're so right.
The guy did my car mod once said, anybody can attach these things. The difference is whether you can get the setting right to get what you want. He had to do lots of test runs till he got it right so I don't think it's an easy procedure.

[JmalB]

With the PCIII you can give them your bike and mods and they'll email you a map. I think MotoFuel will as well.

[kay]

Originally Posted by JmalB

With the PCIII you can give them your bike and mods and they'll email you a map. I think MotoFuel will as well.

Really?
That's great follow-up service!!
But to get it spot on, don't you need other info? Like your weight, temp, whatever?

Well, maybe that info is enough to get you a reasonable set up since you're not really racing with top notch riders.

[JmalB]

Yeah there's always so kind of variation. That's when you start getting dyno tunes. But I would hope even with a PCIII there's some kind of inate flexibility in the ECU to cover atmospheric/geographical variables.

[busa-boy33]

i wuv u guys... lol

well I think I will just stick with what I have.. doesn't matter if the bike can go 300 mph if your only willing to go 150 mph..lol

So the rider ability will more than likely determine most out comes. I am not willing to take a big risk while riding. Sure I will go fast but only if there is lite traffic but once I get in with cagers I take things to a slower level and I find that the more I ride the more careful I have become.

Whats funny is that about a year ago this one kid was bragging that his cbr600 beat out a guy on a gsxr-1000 racing down I-10. The only thing I could figure was the kid on the cbr was willing to take risks that the guy on the gsxr wasn't willing to take. I have been there where I backed off running with a guy because he was far more skilled then I was. I know my limitations and what risks I am willing to take..

SO basically I will not mod out my bike any further and just become a better rider..

[diamond_jim]

Originally Posted by busa-boy33

:... I will not mod out my bike any further and just become a better rider..

I'm guessing that you ran out of money.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by busa-boy33

SO basically I will not mod out my bike any further and just become a better rider..

You just made the leap from "biker" to "motorcyclist". Congratulations.

[JmalB]

Originally Posted by busa-boy33

Whats funny is that about a year ago this one kid was bragging that his cbr600 beat out a guy on a gsxr-1000 racing down I-10. The only thing I could figure was the kid on the cbr was willing to take risks that the guy on the gsxr wasn't willing to take. I have been there where I backed off running with a guy because he was far more skilled then I was. I know my limitations and what risks I am willing to take..

SO basically I will not mod out my bike any further and just become a better rider..

Or the guy on the gixxer was in the wrong gear. Or he wasn't racing.


The best way to get faster is to work on the nut behind the wheel, or clip ons in this case.