First time poster, and a few questions.

[Brian360]

Originally Posted by intimid8er

Be well.

Thanks guy. Now onto the advice, any? Don't say "get good life insurance" I already have life insurance, I've had fast cars (11 second street cars) I know thats nowhere near this but ya never know.

Any helpful tips on what to do? I think I may take the gxxr for a spin in the yard at two miles an hour when I get bored, and am not at class.

[intimid8er]

Go to Border or Barnes and Noble look for the books in Rowdy's signature.

Or you could be lazy and Google riding techniques. One of the links in Rowdy's sig, also links to a very informative site for motorcycle riding techniques. Look up the MSF web-site.

Plenty of good info laying around out there.....

[Brian360]

Originally Posted by intimid8er

Go to Border or Barnes and Noble look for the books in Rowdy's signature.

Or you could be lazy and Google riding techniques. One of the links in Rowdy's sig, also links to a very informative site for motorcycle riding techniques. Look up the MSF web-site.

Plenty of good info laying around out there.....

I went to the MFS site and had a look around, perhaps after I look at the bike tonight and get a better idea if I'm going to get it or not, I will google some stuff.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Oh what did someone mean by, going into the corner and pushing the bike away from the corner? Like when the bike is in a lean and its going to far to the right you'd countersteer it to the left? and that would push the bike back in the middle of the road? I understand the motion, just not the physics.

[Clint]

Leaning into a corner, or "hanging off", is a skill that needs to be learned. Often times new riders push the bike down, or lean upward in a turn, which results in the bike leaning further than necessary and therefore reducing traction. It's just one of the many lessons that are hard to learn 1) on your own or from a friend, and 2) on a superbike with a .45 caliber throttle. See the riders below.

[jbrough7]

I think maybe he's referring to push steering?

It's really pretty cool and is something you almost do naturally(or should). Say you're just coming into a left turn....of course you want to turn the bike to the left. But you don't pull the bars to the left; what you do is push away from your body (forward) with your right hand on the right handlegrip. This is what gets you around the curve (plus about a million other things).

So it's nothing like steering a bicycle at all. And when you do it smoothly and properly it gives you a real sense of accomplishment. To the point where you turn around and try it again from the other direction!

jim

[Clint]

Bicycles steer the same way.

[Brian360]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Bicycles steer the same way.

Yeah, you didnt know?

[jbrough7]

No, they don't - unless you're talking very slow speeds. Our motorcycle instructor made a big point of that.

When you're going slow, you have to ride the m/c like a bicycle. But when you get above 25 clicks or so, then the push steering comes into effect. Nobody has ever pushed on the right to turn the bicycle's bars to the left, you just pull it to the left.

jim

[Clint]

My point was that they do steer the same way, at least at speeds where body weight doesn't play a major role. Jim seems to think otherwise.

Don't own a bicycle, Jim? Go out and take one for a ride. At anything faster than a walk, you're countersteering just like you would a motorcycle. Your instructor was full of beans.

Whether someone pushes or pulls is irrelevant. The only thing at issue is in which direction. On any single-track vehicle, you steer opposite the turn initially.

[Apertureguy]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Whether someone pushes or pulls is irrelevant.

Oh, I wouldn't say that....I can remember in Catholic School...all the Nuns were Pushing For Disipline....and the rest us were Pulling For Pleasure!

[Clint]

LOL! You sound like my dad saying that. He was there, too.

[Ext1jdh]

go out to your local educational supply store or museum gift shop and buy a gyroscope.

now turn it on its side and fire it up. try to lean it to the left or right as your bike would lean.

See how it has a tendency to pull in one direction or another? That is exactly what is happening with your wheels in a turn on a motorcycle. You are dealing with much higher speeds and amounts of mass, so the force will be even greater.

This is exactly the same force that is keeping your bike upright while you're riding, and why you dont have to do much to keep the bike vertical while you're at speed.

[intimid8er]

To expand on the above post:

Take what Ext is saying and add this to it.

That wheel/tire combo acting like a gyroscope.....now, force it off it's axis (push on the handlebar), the bike will "fall over" off it's axis, and follow the small side of the tire. Much like if you were to take a paper cup, lay it on it's side, and give it a push. What does it do? It turns in a circle. Same principle with the motorbike.

It is a hard concept to wrap your mind around, but the simplest way to "get" it is think this: "Push right, turn right." "Push left. Turn left."

As far as the debate goes about the bicycle......The MSF instructor was right to a degree, and Rowdy was right to a degree. Apparently, that is an MSF teaching maxim, I don't know, I heard the same thing at my MSF class. I ride a bicycle every night, and not just tooling around either. Maybe the MSF believes that the average Joe won't pedal a bike fast enough on a consistent basis for countersteering to be relevant. However, you do need a speed far faster than just above walking speed. I have to be hauling the mail on the bicycle when I'm able to countersteer, but up until that point, if I push right to go right, I turn left.

[jbrough7]

Next time you're out tooling around town on your m/c, notice how you steer at 10 mph. It's totally different than you do at 30 mph.

I'll bet anyone a litre of used m/c oil I'm right!

jim

[Ext1jdh]

+1 jim. At low speeds there is not enough moving mass for the countersteering effect to be very noticable (sp?). Like in a parking lot, I've got to actually turn the wheel in the direction I want to go. On the streets, I have to countersteer to turn in the appropriate direction.

[Brian360]

Wow my thread blew up

[Ext1jdh]

I'm glad to see youre sticking around. Most folks who come in with the "I've never ridden and now I'm bonna buy a 'busa" first thread get really angry and dissapear by their 6th post.

Good on yer!

[drgibson]

Originally Posted by Brian360

Wow my thread blew up

That is a requirement here.

[Brian360]

Originally Posted by drgibson

That is a requirement here.

I'm not going to get the 1000 but I am still very interested in learning to ride.

[Clint]

The ONLY reason you can steer a single-track vehicle directly is if your weight is counteracting the stability of the bike, otherwise you're countersteering. I've had several years of physics and aerodynamics and I know these are facts.

I challenge anyone to this test: Ride your bicycle, motorcycle, moped, whatever at 10 miles per hour. Fix your body rigidly. Stop pedalling and lift your feet. Now turn your handlebars slightly without shifting any body weight. You will turn the opposite way. Guaranteed.

Again, countersteering is the one and only way to upset the natural balance of a gyroscopic machine without body weight transfer. Take it to the bank. If you can steer directly at a speed more than 5 mph, you're a much bigger person than I am, because it's all weight doing the turning, and not steering input.