Stop parenting and start supporting

[drgibson]

Originally Posted by Trapper

Great posts, everyone. I would like to see some threads referenced as to where we were too harsh on someone. It may take you some time, but it would bring some credibility to your concerns.

Here is one

http://www.motorcycle-journal.com/fo...light=wheelies

[Trapper]

Originally Posted by drgibson

Here is one

http://www.motorcycle-journal.com/fo...light=wheelies

I don't see where we (admin or mods) were harsh in that thread. That's what I meant by 'we'. There were a couple of fake squid urls by regular members that may or may not be construed as flaming.

I think what it comes down to is the emoticons are intended to be used in jest. To just use as a reply is definitely flaming. With respect to WTF, I've thought about that acronym before and I guess it has just been accepted into the internet lexicon as acceptable, afaik.

I think we can all learn a bit from todays choice threads. Try not to jump to conclusions, use family friendly language, educate new riders on safety, and use common sense. I find half of the things that get people riled up in forums would not even get a second thought in person.

[mark]

Thanks Night wolf (and SVboy84), "You could always start your own Forum. I hear s -R-Us is available" for the intelligent reply." You both proved my point on how people around here answer questions they don't like---flame the person without an in-depth understanding of the persons intent (and don't ask for further explanation either, that would take effort)

True thanks to AJM50 for going into further detail as to how to make this forum a better place, with more members-which is my goal

And anyone who says we dont need those people around here I TOTALLY DISAGREE, as those people need us more than we need them.(we might just keep them a little grounded when what we say is in total contrast with what they hear from their testosterone junky friends)

For those wondering, I don't disagree w/ safety at all, and ALMOST EVERYONE here seems to miss that as soon as someone/anyone questions "HOW" we go about our business around here.

I just think we need to answer the question and then add personal opinion vs. just the personal opinion.

[Trapper]

So when someone asks if they should get an R1 or a GSXR 1000 for their first bike, we should give them our opinions on which bike is better rather than tell them that neither bike is acceptable for a new rider?

I don't think you will ever see that here. The hypothetical person may be very intelligent, but the question is stupid, and it should be pointed out to them.

It has always been that way here and as far as the poll in the other thread indicates, that is how the majority wants it.

[intimid8er]

Originally Posted by Trapper

I find half of the things that get people riled up in forums would not even get a second thought in person.

Amen to that....

[Kingby]

Same when people are in cages. They get all riled up over nothing. Never would happen in person.

[drgibson]

Originally Posted by Trapper

I don't see where we (admin or mods) were harsh in that thread. That's what I meant by 'we'. There were a couple of fake squid urls by regular members that may or may not be construed as flaming.

I think what it comes down to is the emoticons are intended to be used in jest. To just use as a reply is definitely flaming. With respect to WTF, I've thought about that acronym before and I guess it has just been accepted into the internet lexicon as acceptable, afaik.

I think we can all learn a bit from todays choice threads. Try not to jump to conclusions, use family friendly language, educate new riders on safety, and use common sense. I find half of the things that get people riled up in forums would not even get a second thought in person.

Sorry Trapper I didn't realize you were talking about just the admins & Mods. I don't believe that is the issue here I believe some of the members get a little over zealous at times. I have been known to call someone a troll when I thought that we were being baited, but some members tend to lash out when someone asks a question about doing something considered unsafe for the road even though the person asking never said that they intended to do this act on the road. As for a noob wanting a “R” rated bike we need to encourage them to start out on a smaller bike, to take the riders training courses, to buy the right gear, and to take it easy. However some of the members here go on the attack without any hint of reasoning to what they say. If I was a noob I would just tune it out. Tell them why it is a bad Idea not that they will be six feet under before they can learn how to ride, that the bike won’t make them cool, or only an itiot would start out on a “R” rated bike, and other tactics that are just harsh and abrasive. If they are new to motorcycling then they need to have a conceptual understanding of why an “R” rated bike is a poor choice. I am all for promoting safety and being concerned about fellow riders and potential riders but what are we really promoting when we berate a noob for not knowing any better?

[mark]

Originally Posted by Trapper

So when someone asks if they should get an R1 or a GSXR 1000 for their first bike, we should give them our opinions on which bike is better rather than tell them that neither bike is acceptable for a new rider? .

You should first answer the question and THEN tell them that neither is acceptable for a new rider. You acknowledge their personal value by answering the question, and then show that have serious concern for their potential decision. It will garner more respect from the questioner. (Think about if you asked the question and all you got was flamed without even an answer to your question...it's disrespectful)

[Trapper]

I say cut to the chase. Why waste words over which bike is better when we all know it is a matter of opinion. Granted, we sometimes (we, meaning all of us, Don ) need to chose our words more wisely, but to say "the Gixer is a sick ride, man" and then say "but you shouldn't get one" is contradictory.

We (both the admin and the members , I hope) would like to see this forum grow, but if that means walking on eggshells in order to keep the immature squids from running away, I say too bad. I've lurked at some forums where safety is at the bottom of the list of priorities and without exception, it is a lot more abusive than this forum. I did a bit of professional forum posting (don't do it! It is tedious work) for new forums, so I've been a member of up to 20 odd forums. This is by far the most friendly and least cliquey of all of them. Give yourselves a pat on the back. You are members of THE best motorcycle forum on the net, and it will only get bigger and better.

[drgibson]

Originally Posted by mark

You should first answer the question and THEN tell them that neither is acceptable for a new rider. You acknowledge their personal value by answering the question, and then show that have serious concern for their potential decision. It will garner more respect from the questioner. (Think about if you asked the question and all you got was flamed without even an answer to your question...it's disrespectful)

Mark,

That would be like your 16 year old daughter asking you which car would be a better first car an enzo of a Ford GT. There is no right answer accept that neither is right. To say "Daugher dearest the Ford because it's cheaper and almost as fast. However I think you should start out with a Ford Focus to learn in." All she hears is Daugher dearest the Ford because it's cheaper and almost as fast. However

To pick one is to promote one.

[drgibson]

Originally Posted by Trapper

I say cut to the chase. Why waste words over which bike is better when we all know it is a matter of opinion. Granted, we sometimes (we, meaning all of us, Don ) need to chose our words more wisely, but to say "the Gixer is a sick ride, man" and then say "but you shouldn't get one" is contradictory.

[Trapper]

Just wanted to make sure we didn't get our "we's" mixed up again.

There's one for the swallow thread.

[mark]

Originally Posted by drgibson

Mark,

That would be like your 16 year old daughter asking you which car would be a better first car an enzo of a Ford GT. There is no right answer accept that neither is right. To say "Daugher dearest the Ford because it's cheaper and almost as fast. However I think you should start out with a Ford Focus to learn in." All she hears is Daugher dearest the Ford because it's cheaper and almost as fast. However

To pick one is to promote one.

Interesting point. I would agree that is all a teenager would hear--but in my defense you would have answered the question by saying--neither is a good first car.

I think we would both agree, we aren't always dealing with teenagers, and that a little extra effort to be polite to the non-teenagers who ask similar questions would be good for "us".

[SVZuki]

for the most part noobs do not always need to be teenagers and teenagers aren't always noobs. The point is that anyone asking for an opinion for a first bike, will get just that. If they ask if a gsxr 750 is a good first bike, the majority will tell them no. There are instances where I will disagree with the first bike choice as is for the SV. That is my personal choice as is not wanting to give advice about how to wheelie as I haven't and I like being on two wheels. The mods and admins do a great job as it is. When they post, usually they post as a motorcyclist, then if a discussion gets out of hand it is locked, or a post deleted.

[mark]

Originally Posted by Night_Wolf

If you want to tutor Calamari on the fine art of why they should start on a GSX/CBR/ZX,rr fill your boots. It's my opinion you are needlessly endangering the life of someone's child.:

there you go assuming i'm against safety again

And YES--YOU did answer his question-but many others don't bother offering that courtesy.

And just like you, I don't care if you like my opinion. But unlike many (and i'm not saying you), before i offer an opinion on a question, ill answer the question first.

[ematheus]

Wow - I just read through it all, and I think Mark has a point. I also think that Night_Wolf is right about safety, but that's not what Mark is saying. One member put it in the right words - it's the tone that makes the music!!
Being friendly to a newbie who is asking about the GSX-R might make him listen closer to what we have to say. The comment about the teenagers is smart. If you sit down with them and have a good conversation, they'll listen. If you yell at them, they'll do the exact oposite of what you want them to do.
All Mark wants, is us to be more considerate.
Ernst

[Rickster]

There are two main reasons that I read, and participate in this forum, and not in others.
#1. This forum for the most part is very friendly, and only the very thin of skin seem to be bothered, and those that are usually seem to work things out. Notice I said "for the most part", there are always exceptions, but even those are entertaining. Threads like this one are an excellent example, lots of different opinions, none of them really bad, or wrong, and everyone getting to have there say without being bad-mouthed.
#2. There is a lot, and I do mean a lot of knowledge about motorcycles, and the riding of motorcycles here. You don't get that from other forums that seem to want to specialize in either how cool they look, or how fast they can go. I'll take my info from the experienced crowd any time.

So, let's not be doing a lot of changing, and I mean that from people on all sides of this topic. It's all good!

[Clint]

I change a lot of diapers. Got a problem with that?

[robertc729]

Personally I think the members here have been more than accomadating on most subjects, sometimes it may go overboard on other subjects, but if it keeps the roads a safer, IMO, it keeps me, my family, and other riders safer because there are less beginners on an overly powerful bike and more sensible people working on being safer riders.

[JoelAZ]

Originally Posted by mark

I just think we need to answer the question and then add personal opinion vs. just the personal opinion.

I disagree with this. This is a message board, and we are just people. We will always offer our opinion even if it isn't intentional. As for saying, "I like such and such bike but you shouldn't ride it because blah blah blah..." people will cut out the part about not riding it. Sorry, human nature is to get defensive about what we can and can't do, not what we should do.