The Dark Side (Revisited)

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Of course, I could be wrong.

Well you see, there's where I think the major difference lies.

So far all I have seen from those who "advocate" this is a stubborn, pig headed insistance that there is no way in hell that THEY could possibly be the least little teeny bit wrong about anything.

Add to that an attitude that anybody who doesn't immediately agree with their unconventional method is obvioiusly stupid............and to that I say:

[omegajim]

keep us up to date; I'd like to see how this pans out.

Me, I would take the "wait and see" approach.

[tricker]

here's an idea... all this money your supposedly saving.. just give it to me and you all can complain about your car tires on your bikes and how everyone else is wrong.. or vise versa

[Jammin'John]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

John, I don't appreciate you coming in here and calling me names. I have every right to discuss this with those who wish to do so. If you don't like that, you're welcome to leave.

For those of you who don't understand the basic tenets of science, it involves evidence, both observational and experimental. Most of my questions involve the utter lack of either. That doesn't mean I'm "opposed" to anything, just that I won't do it myself without the type of evidence that satisfies my skeptical mind. Feel free, but do not accuse me of being closed-minded or a know-it-all. Doing so mostly serves to expose your ignorance of the scientific method and critical thinking.

Now, if you've actually done traction tests, using identical bikes and techniques, or you've done contact patch analysis, including deformation studies and side-load testing, I'd love to hear about it. The claim about stopping faster than any stock-tired bike is a big one, and as such requires big evidence. Until then, most of what you've told me seems to be speculation and guessing. Of course, I could be wrong.

You are closed minded.
There,................I accused YOU of being closed-minded !
Hey. I'll go back into my cave.
Sorry to bother you.

Ride safe...........and often.

JJ

[WillieWherry]

Originally Posted by Jammin'John

I have 10,000 miles on my Tripple Tread.
My buddies say I'm riding just as fast as ever.
I only got 4,000 miles out of the stock tire.
I have been riding darkside for 3 years and many thousands of miles.
I can stop faster than any stock tired cruiser bike.
The rain does not slow me down.
There is a larger contact patch while leaning.
You guys don't believe it 'cause you keep watchin' that video that rowdy red keeps posting because he is very opposed to the car tire.
If you looked at the tire from the SIDE you would see the HUGE contact patch.
I don't join these discussions because certain "know it alls" always chime in and say it's stupid.
I think it's stupid to have to buy 5 rear tires every year.
It's hard enough trying to keep gas in this scooter.
I don't care what any of you do in your riding lifes.
I just think that you do not allow free discussion if you don't agree with the person posting.
You have very closed minds and you become mean and intollerant of anyone that doesn't agree.
Ride safe and often !

JJ

I think the same as most people. I can also comment and state my opinion. When it comes to putting car tires on a bike and your comments of superior performance. I would think you don't have the faintest idea about any of the engineering that went into producing the SPECIAL bike tires that go on our bikes. I suppose you don't believe in wearing a helmet either. Thats another topic. There is no comparison between the two tires. All your talk is cheap hype trying to convince yourself you did right. Maybe you chose the car tire because its cheaper. Since you also stated you can't afford gas either. There is always a whizzer motor bike, Hell, then you could use BMX tires. LOL. There is no way in hell that you could ever talk me into putting car tires on my bike. Your just looking for an wreck. The flexing of the side wall is totally different between a car and a bike and so is the contact area. Gee, I wonder why they call them CAR tires and bike tires. My bike weight is 700LBS. My car weight is what? Aw there close. LOL. It's your bike do as you like. But don't give us any BS on how great they are. I've owned more bikes then you are old. If they were any good Yamaha would have used them in the first place. Yamaha is not in the tire business. If you can't afford to buy the correct parts or equipment for your bike, maybe you should consider riding the buss. LOL. Don't you just love my opinion!LOL.

Willie

[Jammin'John]

Ride safe & have fun.

Have a great day.


JJ

[Jammin'John]

Not everyone.
I just love to ride.
If I have a different opinion that is no reason for some folks to attack me.
Back to the cave !

JJ

[Trapper]

We are not going to close every thread that people disagree in. If there is abuse of rules, then we will deal with it, usually through PM. If the thread upsets you, don't open it.

[Jammin'John]

Thank You.
Agree to disagree.
No hate.
Ride safe.

JJ

[Trapper]

Originally Posted by Jammin'John

Thank You.
Agree to disagree.
No hate.
Ride safe.

JJ

You're still wrong!

[Jammin'John]

Whatever you say !
Ride safe.

JJ

[omegajim]

still waiting to see how the actual tire does over the long term test.

[demingrickjames]

I now have 1,500 miles on the tire, I see no reason to go back to a MC tire on this bike.

[VulcanV2K]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Yes. It is a fact.
Just exactly what the hell ELSE do you think accounts for the difference in wear.......from 7,500 miles to 80,000 ??

None are so blind as those who WILL not see.

The end.

Easy Rider,

Your are 100% right about there being a difference in rubber compounds. To prove it I researched the Bridgestone Battlax BT020 rear tire that came stock on my Vulcan 2000. It has a durometer rating of 65, which appears to be about medium/low hardness for street motorcycle tires. The Dunlop SP5000 symmetrical car tire I researched has a durometer reading of 50. So the fact is that in my case, my motorcycle tire has a 30% harder rubber compound than my car tire. To me this is a fairly substantial difference. Looking around on the net I've found that this difference is pretty typical when comparing durometer readings between most street motorcycle tires and most high performance street car tires.

So the fact is that the typical street motorcycle tire is made with a substantially harder rubber compound than the typical high performance car tire.

The reason motorcycle tires wear so relatively fast is simple, but it is not caused by having softer rubber. Motorcycles in general have a much higher power to weight ratio than cars. All of this power, along with breaking force, is transferred to the road on a much smaller contact area relative to a car tire. Even though a car loads its tires with higher weight loads than a motorcycle does, the load is spread over a much larger contact patch resulting in less pressure on the contact patch. If the rubber on a motorcycle tire was as soft as the car tire in my example it probably wouldn't last a thousand miles.

Take Care, VulcanV2K

[Clint]

Interesting. You didn't, however, test the passenger car tire that's at the heart of this matter. The SP5000 is no doubt a softer compound.

[Clint]

Thread purged of nonsense. Back on topic!

[demingrickjames]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

They make 'em soft so they can sell more. Duh.

Are MC tires softer or harder then car tires??

You can't have it both ways.

[Clint]

Not following.

[demingrickjames]

I was just bringing back a comment from earlier discussion on this subject, (You just happen to be the one that posted it), where everyone was claim ing that car tires were harder than MC tires, and therefore not suitable for use on motorcycles.

The durometer test link I posted, (yes, the exact tires used are different than the tires in question; blah blah), pretty much proves thet statement false.

I've said this before:

I'm not trying to convince anyone to put a car tire on their machine, I just wanted those interested to know that this tire fits and it works.

Whether it works is a dead subject at this point.

How it works is the question.

For me, it works great.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by VulcanV2K

So the fact is that the typical street motorcycle tire is made with a substantially harder rubber compound than the typical high performance car tire.

The reason motorcycle tires wear so relatively fast is simple, but it is not caused by having softer rubber.

OK, fair enough. I wasn't aware that the discussion was about performance rated cage tires.

What you say about the reasons for faster wear on bike tires is absolutely true. It is also true that, compared to the average cage tire, the compound used for bike tires is softer. Compared to some cage tires, it is a LOT softer.

So, lets compare apples to apples. I contend that of tires in the same general class, the bike tire will always have a softer compound. I have no proof of that, just a gut feeling and 40 years of experience.

YMMV