Pakistan Trip

[Pay_The_O]

For some tiem i haven't been posting, thats cause i've been in pakistan for the last month! i remember all your threads about those beautiful views on the twisties you guys went on, and when i went to northern pakistan (near K2 the second largest mountain) i was expecting the same! but unfortunately pakistan is a 3rd world country so the roads were so dangerous i forgot about the scenery (which was nice) and thought more of my safety. The raods had been cut in half by constant landslides! and there were no barriers no matter how high you went up the mountains! Well there WERE barriers, but if you were to hit them your chances of falling of the edge would probably INCREASE rather than decrease lol.

Ill get some screens up so you guys know what i mean ill do it sometime today, we uploaded all the pictures on some rogers online photo album, ill ask my parents for the adress and stuff later today...




This is one of the many "Heaven spot"'s, we had our lunch here and had a nice cool down this was if we looked to the right




We had this view on our left... we passed that mountain, and went up about 3/4 of it... to bad we didnt get to the clouds





This is a picture of us from left to right, my younger bro, my oldest bro, my littlest (is that a word) bro, me, my uncle... and this is how it looked if we looked straight.




pakistan is a very beautiful country in the northern areas, but the more south you go, the worse it gets... if you go to Karachi, imagine usa/canada walking down the street, instead of a sidewalk its dirt, instead of a road, its dirt, instead of grass, theres piles of garbage... kinda hard to get used to

[Clint]

If I was in Pakistan I doubt I'd have the guts to go riding.

[Scourge]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

If I was in Pakistan I doubt I'd have the guts to go riding.

+1. Surely not in anything less armored than an Abrams.

[wgd9891]

Some people need to stop being rhetoric all the time. Why do you people think that others are out to get you? Is it because you are guilty of what your nation has done to the outside world? <----- intended at scourge

On a side note, did you visit India?

[Pay_The_O]

Originally Posted by wgd9891

Some people need to stop being rhetoric all the time. Why do you people think that others are out to get you? Is it because you are guilty of what your nation has done to the outside world? <----- intended at scourge

On a side note, did you visit India?

nah we didnt visit india, cause if we did, me and my little brother look like Patans... a kind of descent that clearly tells your pakistani, and if everyone knows you pakistani in india, you get treated really bad...

take pakistan for instance... christian people are treated like dogs, they arent given decent jobs, respect or anything,

Gay people are beaten, spat on, not even GIVEN jobs, and looked at like aliens...


if your not muslem your treated very bad...


its really pathetic how the government works there and all, but it was really fun going there to see the lifestyle and the beautiful mountains and stuff...


as for rowdy and scourge staying away from riding.. thats actually really smart, there are NO traffic rules in pakistan, nothing... no stop signs no signals no crap.... BUT traffic lights are up, but 50% of the people decide to follow them while the others just run them...

the motorcycles ONLY lane split, at a traffic light, if its a red light and the people decide to stop, at the front is all motorcycles cause they weave through the cars to get to the front...

and yes many accidents happen... lots of people get hurt bad.

[MagnumForce]

Were you able to ride a motorcycle while in Pakistan? I'm also curious about the mountain scenery there. Can't wait till you post pics.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by wgd9891

Some people need to stop being rhetoric all the time. Why do you people think that others are out to get you?

I don't think you meant to use the word "rhetoric" there, did you? And Pay's response clearly makes the same point. Violence and oppression based on bias and religion seems to abound.

[Scourge]

Originally Posted by wgd9891

Some people need to stop being rhetoric all the time. Why do you people think that others are out to get you? Is it because you are guilty of what your nation has done to the outside world? <----- intended at scourge

On a side note, did you visit India?

Nope. My nation, the one that you seem to be living in as well, gives more funds for relief efforts around the world than any other, so as to the weighing of the scales, we do pretty well. However, on this rock, there are areas that are less safe to traverse than others. That is the reality of the world.

On a side not, it was just a joke, relax fella.

[inspiron]

I had a chat with a Yogi the other day ... he has just opened an Indian restaurant here in the area where I live. He was saying that basically the division between India, Pakistan, Cashmire and Bangladesh is purely political, but the people all share a common culture.

Now Pay_the_O is saying that there is discrimination between Pakistanis and Indians ...

When are people going to learn that national borders are political barriers only? When you are in an airplane, you can't tell where the USA ends and Canada begins, or where India ends and Pakistan begins. There aren't any lines on the ground. We all share the same rock ... and it's the only one we have.

[Pay_The_O]

how do i put pictures up here? should i host them on imageshack or something then link it?

[Clint]

Mmm-hmm.

[Pay_The_O]

Originally Posted by EZridr1

Were you able to ride a motorcycle while in Pakistan? I'm also curious about the mountain scenery there. Can't wait till you post pics.

i did ride a motorcycle, unfortunately not on the actual road cause its so dangerous, the motorcycles cost about 20000 ruppees (400 CAD) and used ones go for about 5000-10000 (100-200 CAD) really cheap over there...

as for the pics, i only have a couple on my camera, the good ones are on my video camera, we have an option to shoot still pictures on it and they save to a memory stick... im gonna have to find out how to get that uploaded on my computer, but ill show you the others aswell...

Originally Posted by inspiron

I had a chat with a Yogi the other day ... he has just opened an Indian restaurant here in the area where I live. He was saying that basically the division between India, Pakistan, Cashmire and Bangladesh is purely political, but the people all share a common culture.

Now Pay_the_O is saying that there is discrimination between Pakistanis and Indians ...

When are people going to learn that national borders are political barriers only? When you are in an airplane, you can't tell where the USA ends and Canada begins, or where India ends and Pakistan begins. There aren't any lines on the ground. We all share the same rock ... and it's the only one we have.

inspiron, pakistan and india is somewhat like nazis and jews, there arent many nazis left in the world but they do still exist, places near the disputed territory can be very very dangerous, which is why our family didnt go visit there... our mother told us that some places are so dangerous that you could get shot if they figured out your culture/religon/whatever and were against it. I didn't even know there would be a place like that :S... but the way pakistan works is very very wierd i cant stress that enough because of how stereotypicaly their rules (if they even have any) are followedm

btw does anyone know how the disputed area was born? like i know pakistan and india split up because of muslims and hindus, but whats with that land?

[inspiron]

I would look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir

[nurider]

This thread has a load of crap in it. I'd expect it on some of the other forums I'm on, not here. Anyway ....

Originally Posted by Pay_The_O

nah we didnt visit india, cause if we did, me and my little brother look like Patans... a kind of descent that clearly tells your pakistani, and if everyone knows you pakistani in india, you get treated really bad...

take pakistan for instance... christian people are treated like dogs, they arent given decent jobs, respect or anything,

Gay people are beaten, spat on, not even GIVEN jobs, and looked at like aliens...


if your not muslem your treated very bad...


its really pathetic how the government works there and all, but it was really fun going there to see the lifestyle and the beautiful mountains and stuff...


as for rowdy and scourge staying away from riding.. thats actually really smart, there are NO traffic rules in pakistan, nothing... no stop signs no signals no crap.... BUT traffic lights are up, but 50% of the people decide to follow them while the others just run them...

the motorcycles ONLY lane split, at a traffic light, if its a red light and the people decide to stop, at the front is all motorcycles cause they weave through the cars to get to the front...

and yes many accidents happen... lots of people get hurt bad.

No disrespect, but did someone say you looked like a Pathan? You don't.
Your views on the place are .... different .... to mine (and, I'd argue, to how things there really are), and I've spent a fair amount of time there.

As far as traffic is concerned, did someone tell you people don't get hurt in other accidents elsewhere?
Regarding traffic rules, I'd have to agree. Driving there is ... different. But then, so is driving in some parts of Europe.

"If you're not muslim ..." - gross (incorrect) generalization, in my opinion.

Your version of the Pakistani-Indian hate thing is also a little far fetched.

Now, rather than to argue with anything, let me ask one question. Were you forced to go there? If not, enjoy the trip for what it was worth, and drop the criticizing.


Scourge: do you get all your news on TV? Or Time magazine? You can't believe everything you hear or read. If only negative images are presented, the public tends to believe that is all that exists.

WGD9891 & Scourge: each of you has made a valid point. I wonder if you realize what the points are.

Rowdy: I expected more from you.

Inspiron: as always, rationally said.

Pay: "...pakistan and india is somewhat like nazis and jews...." Three things come to mind:
1. How old are you?
2. What are you smoking?
3. What leads you to this bizarre comparison?

As for how the disputed area came about, it was an almost inevitable result of one country dividing into 2 parts with outside and biased influence on the division process. There's a lot to read on this topic if you search for it. Using "Kashmir" in your search will get you lots of results.

[Scourge]

You are absolutely right, you can't believe everything you read, or see on T.V. news. However if you close your eyes to the world around you and just think happy thoughts, well there ain't much hope for you.

[Pay_The_O]

apologies for bringing back the thread... but

in regards to nurider, when i said pakistan and india is somewhat like nazis and jews..

i meant that in a way as, there are some people that have the "hatred" towards eachother however some dont... just like the few numbers of nazis still living in germany, im not talking about what they actually did (concentration camps)

[inspiron]

You should differentiate between Nazi (the national socialist party) and the anti-semitism and genocide that was practiced between 1933 and 1945.

Yes, there are still national socialists in Germany, as well as in almost every other country. They have a very strong sense of German pride and patrioism and believe in the mother-land and a strong central socialist government.

There are also anti-semites, who are against anything Jewish or anything to do with Israel, but it is much more common to see "skinheads" who will violently attack anyone who looks a bit different (arab, african, asian, ... ). Most skinheads are just stupid, unemployed, alcoholic, homless punks who act because of the "group" influence. Individually, they are cowards.

I still don't believe that the average Indian or Pakistani have any animosity toward each other. Just as I don't believe that the average South Korean has any animosity toward a North Korean. The violence and animosity comes from some political or religious leaders, not from the average citizen.

There are many similarities to the German skinheads - the animosity comes from the group influence. Everyone around me else hates those other guys, and I belong to this group, so I have to hate the others too.

[Pay_The_O]

if you go to any regular place in india/pakistan the "hate" has diminished to about the same level as Germanies Nazi population (Very low, im only using that example because "nazis" are somewhat history now)... However, cities near the disputed territory are very dangerous, and people ARE in danger almost all the time there. That is why we didn't travel there in our trip, my father and mother would not even take going NEAR the disputed territory into the question.

[MagnumForce]

A very wise decision indeed, Pay. I'm glad your family had the foresight to avoid areas of conflict. What should matter is that you and your family had a fun visit and returned home safely. The pictures you posted are very scenic. Most people would have though of Pakistan as more desert like, sort of like the southern part of the country. Thanks to you, folks here are exposed to a different, and more beautiful, view of the country.

[Pay_The_O]

Originally Posted by EZridr1

A very wise decision indeed, Pay. I'm glad your family had the foresight to avoid areas of conflict. What should matter is that you and your family had a fun visit and returned home safely. The pictures you posted are very scenic. Most people would have though of Pakistan as more desert like, sort of like the southern part of the country. Thanks to you, folks here are exposed to a different, and more beautiful, view of the country.

lol karachi IS a desert
imagine the streets of North America, but insetad of road its dirt, instead of a side walk its dirt, instead of grass... you guessed it dirt! lol... but those pictures were takin in northern pakistan, a bit north of islamabad, about a 1 day drive north.... very nice scenery there but once you get to the towns, you'll remember your in pakistan again lol