Check this out.....

[frank5079]

It seems as though the politicians of the EU are seriously considering this......as a way of curtailing road deaths and injuries to motorists.....

[Clint]

Pfft. It'll never happen.

[tlwisner]

I hope you're right Rowdy, but governments have their ways of criticizing things, demonizing them, restricting them and then banning them.

[Clint]

I'd take a trip over there just to ride if they did. Bastages.

[Scourge]

It may be accurate, but I'd bet even money that this is just a membership drive campaign.

[CruisingRam]

Never going to happen in Europe, no way, no how- and here is why:

1)Cars costs loads of money over there- very high inspection fees, taxes, licensure, everything- not to mention they eat more fuel- at 6+ a gallon

2) Bikes are basic tranportation over there- not recreational vehicles like here- some folks over there go thier whole life without owning a car, and driving some kind of bike, from scooter upwards.

3) Fuel once again- it is the quickest way to fuel economy you can get.

4) Integral part of thier economy. Bike building, customizing, and actual factories (I may be mistaken, but I believe the ST 1300 is built in Germany) are almost the equivilent to the economy over there as the car industry is here.

[md2lgyk]

. . . governments have their ways of criticizing things, demonizing them, restricting them and then banning them.

Especially in the UK. And just look how their crime rate has skyrocketed since they banned guns.

[CruisingRam]

Ya, that dang UK and thier runaway crime- with 850 total gun murders in thier country- compared to our over 12K LOL

I am a libertarian, and just had a debate on a series of laws, including gun control- which, as a libertarian, I am against- but other countries gun laws is a very weak debate for us- there are far better avenues to go down- very similar for bike deaths- the best argument for ANY additional law is this: Are we enforcing the ones we already have? If no, why make more?

Here is some data I have found, could not find a data source of gun crime by country, just gun murders. Again, for those who live by this debate this should be a staple, not knowing/having this information seems is to me intelelctual dishonesty.

I have found we are number one in the world for total prisoners. That we are also number one per capita for total prisoners.

That we are number 4 for total murders with firearms.
1 South Africa 31,918 (2000)
2. Colombia 21,898 (2000)
3. Thailand 20,032 (2000)
4. United States 8,259 (1999)
5. Mexico 3,589 (2000)
6. Zimbabwe 598 (2000)
7. Germany 384 (2000)
8. Belarus 331 (2000)
9. Czech Republic 213 (2000)
10. Ukraine 173 (2000)
11. Poland 166 (2000)
12. Canada 165 (1999

That should place us number 4 or 5 for total murders with firearms per capita.

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/grap...it_fir&int=300
murders with firearms we are 4th


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri
prisoners total we are number one
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri_per_cap
number one prisoners per capita
number 1 in total crime (but not all crime is reported by others)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_tot_cri
this would put us about 6 approximately in rate, but not all crime is reported.

murders total we are number 6 in the world
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur
that should put us between 15 to 19 for rate.
1 India 37,170 (1999)
2. Russia 28,904 (2000)
3. Colombia 26,539 (2000)
4. South Africa 21,995 (2000)
5. Mexico 13,829 (2000)
6. United States 12,658 (1999)
7. Venezuela 8,022 (2000)
8. Thailand 5,140 (2000)
9. Ukraine 4,418 (2000)
10. Indonesia 2,204 (2000)
11. Poland 2,170 (2000)
12. France 1051 (2000)
13. Belarus 1013 (2000)
14. Germany 960 (2000)
15. Korea, South 955 (2000)
16. Zimbabwe 912 (2000)
17. Jamaica 887 (2000)
18. United Kingdom 850 (2000)

[md2lgyk]

Impressive, though meaningless. Statistics can be made to say whatever someone wants them to say.

I'm sorry I made the comment I did. This is a motorcycle forum. I should've known better.

[Clint]

Let's not go gun control with this thread. Get'r back on motorcycling or I'll get out my big eraser.

[CruisingRam]

LOL- well, I will say it again- motorcycles are the only (relatively) cheap form of transportation in Europe- that is privately owned (as opposed to rail and busses and whatnot- and it would probably destroy several countries economies to outlaw them.

Now- regulate? different story- there is this bike made, I believe in the netherlands, called the "Mammut"- a 2 liter supercharged volkswagon motor in a bike- that is goverment regulated to 146mph.

They very well may go that direction. Running N2O in some countries will literally get you thrown in jail. That kind of thing.

[inspiron]

The "Swedish inititiative" they mention is the "Vision Zero" with the goal of reducing traffic fatalities to zero. Nice theory ... impossible in reality.

They used "Vision Zero" to start an inititive here in Switzerland - they wanted to restrict all motorcycles to 80 kmh (50 mph). Keeping in mind that Switzerland has the highest number of motorcycles per capita in the world (7.5 million population, 0.5 million registered motorcycles), an "interest group" was formed, petitions filed and protest actions were staged. The result? The initiative (at least the 80 kmh limit for motorcycles) was discarded - no politician wanted to touch any issue that would pi$$ off half a million voters.

There are some aspects of Vision Zero that are postive - like improving the safety of guardrails in dangerous corners, increasing the monitoring and lighting in tunnels, increasing police activity near discos and bars around closing time, etc.

And since 2 of every 3 motorcycle accidents involve cars, and many involve older drivers, I personally think that they should focus on driver training and evaluating the "road fitness" of people over 65.

Really ... how often do you hear about a motorcycle making a left turn in front of a car? Almost never. How often are bikes cut off by some Geritol who then claims "I didn't see him?" Way too often!

[inspiron]

Sorry ... the "cheap transportation" doesn't work in my case. As I've said before ...

2000 VW Golf TDI 1.9 - gets about 39 mpg
2003 Suzuki GSX 1400 - gets about 37 mpg

No matter what I drive, my fuel costs are about $0.13 cents per mile.

[CruisingRam]

I stand corrected then LOL- I was thinking more St 1300 here I guess LOL

But I have to ask- is that normal mpg on the bike- or is it because you twist the throttle a tad too much?

I have to ask- my brother owns the golfs alter ego- I believe it is a "fox?" any way, it is a volkswagon, and it didn't get better mileage than his V65- which, in the greater scheme of things- isn't all that great of a mileage bike anyway- anyhow- big litre bikes are still not the norm anywere- 650s and 750s still rule the shear numbers game- and get pretty awesome mileage too LOL

[tlwisner]

The cars in Europe are much smaller and more fuel efficient on the average than are cars here in the US. The same is true of bikes in Europe, Inspiron's GSX 1400 is quite above average in size, speed and fuel consumption by European standards where scooters are quite common - while his GSX 1400 is probably close to average by US standards. Europeans also are more likely to have access to usable public transportation systems than are people in the US.

I've never been a fan of stripping rights away from law abiding tax paying individuals.

[inspiron]

The mileage for both is based upon typical driving conditions, well within the legal and sensible driving limits.

I had my bike up at 210 kmh (speedo, 192 kmh actual) ... that is no fun at all. I prefer the challenge of a fine set of twisties at moderate speeds ... on Sunday, I enjoyed over 100 km of twisties all around the southern Black Forest. Perfect weather, plenty of free time ... excellent.

[CruisingRam]

Originally Posted by tlwisner

The cars in Europe are much smaller and more fuel efficient on the average than are cars here in the US. The same is true of bikes in Europe, Inspiron's GSX 1400 is quite above average in size, speed and fuel consumption by European standards where scooters are quite common - while his GSX 1400 is probably close to average by US standards. Europeans also are more likely to have access to usable public transportation systems than are people in the US.

I've never been a fan of stripping rights away from law abiding tax paying individuals.

I quite agree. 6 bucks a gallon just sucks too. Last time I was there, I used public transpo almost exclusively- I wonder what the gas prices are going to do to that mode as well?

[inspiron]

Public transportation is good, but is also affected by the oil prices. Most busses run on diesel - only those within the city have overhead wires to run on electricty. The same is true with trains - the major lines are using electricity, the rest are using diesel locs.

In Switzerland, our electricity comes from nuclear power, dams with hydro generators, and burning of trash and coal. But when there is a peak (and there isn't any energy to be imported from France, Germany or Austria), there are diesel generators for backup.

A few weeks ago, the entire Swiss rail system suffered a power outage. They immediately stopped all cargo trains that ran with diesel, and used the locs to keep the commuter trains moving.

[CruisingRam]

Hey, what do bike rentals cost in Europe these days, specifically Germany or Switzerland? I would really like to rent an ST 1300 or 1100 for about a month for me and the wifey to take a vacation.

If it gets a little better in Russia in the next 10 years, we would like to rent in Finland and drive to my wife's home city of Kazan via St Petersburg, probably skip Moscow LOL