Loud Pipes Risk Rights.......

[Cirquerider]

Non-biker folks that have no problem with bikes or bikers, still talk about "those Harley riders" with the loud pipes. They are complaining because you can hear them at night through the bedroom window for five miles each way as they drive up the highwy. The din of exhaust rips through a downtown shattering the peace of a meal on a patio or balcony restaurant, and the purpose of totally unmuffled exhaust succeeds in getting attention. Attention and peer acceptance seem to be the biggest driver of totally open exhaust. Safety is the biggest red-herring. While a plausible excuse for noise, if it was safety, we'd all have headlight modulators and air horns, and wear fluorescent vests and full-face helmets.

I have pipes loud enough to set off car alarms, and they are equipped with what V&H calls quiet core baffles. I like to think I ride responsibly and with courtesy, but I'm sure I've pissed off a few. I just hope the guys who are really abusive with the noise understand that its causing a lot of laws to be passed that require stock pipes, inspections and enforcement. A little restraint would go a long ways to keeping our choices.

[inspiron]

I've mentioned it before, but the defining moment (with regards to cruiser vs. standard) was a ride with friends back in 2006. We rode over the Splügen pass and crossed the border headed for Ciavenna, Italy. What you don't see when you look at Google Maps is that the road SS36. between the Swiss border and Lake Montespluga, contains some nasty hairpin turns that turn back upon themselves (200° turns) IN A TUNNEL.

My friend Renato was riding his Harley Sporster 883, I was on my GSX 1400, and my other friend Dominiko was on a 125cc Sachs Madass. Rentato had to stop in one of the tunnels and push his bike back because he couldn't make the turn. I was able to ride down, but it was hard work. The 550 lbs of bike (plus my weight and the luggage on the back of the bike) made those turns a real workout.

Dominiko just laughed at us and went flying down the street like he was riding a bicycle. His bike only weighed about 175 lbs, so he had no problem at all getting around the tight turns.

Pictures from that ride --> Club Florian '94 - Fotos - Töffausfahrt - September 2006

[Camp21178]

I don't like loud pipes because I have read articles about towns banning cycles and the rest of us have to pay. I have a great time on my quiet bike and my neighbors like me. We were in Stillwater Mn. last 4th of July watching the fireworks from the bridge and Harley riders would pull in their clutches and rev their engines and it really hurt our ears. Just a minority I know, but they are responsible for the bike ban that has been discussed there.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by Cirquerider

Non-biker folks that have no problem with bikes or bikers, still talk about "those Harley riders" with the loud pipes. They are complaining because you can hear them at night through the bedroom window for five miles each way as they drive up the highwy. The din of exhaust rips through a downtown shattering the peace of a meal on a patio or balcony restaurant, and the purpose of totally unmuffled exhaust succeeds in getting attention. Attention and peer acceptance seem to be the biggest driver of totally open exhaust. Safety is the biggest red-herring. While a plausible excuse for noise, if it was safety, we'd all have headlight modulators and air horns, and wear fluorescent vests and full-face helmets.

I have pipes loud enough to set off car alarms, and they are equipped with what V&H calls quiet core baffles. I like to think I ride responsibly and with courtesy, but I'm sure I've pissed off a few. I just hope the guys who are really abusive with the noise understand that its causing a lot of laws to be passed that require stock pipes, inspections and enforcement. A little restraint would go a long ways to keeping our choices.

Yep to the non riding public all loud bikes are "Harley's", but it doesn't stop there, I know a lot of riders that have the same mind set, some of them are right here on M.J., read the post by Camp21178 where he states

and Harley riders would pull in their clutches and rev their engines and it really hurt our ears.

Reality check here people, all Harley's are not loud, and all loud bikes are not Harley's, so lets try and not turn this thread into another Harley bashing free-for-all, a little education on our part will help a lot towards squashing a lot of these old wife's tales if when the subject comes up we can politely point out to our non riding friends that.........................it's just the highly visible 1% of the bikers that are causing the problems,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and I'm not just talking about the noise issue here, I'm talking about all the things non riders believe to be true about motorcycles, you have all heard them, things like "all motorcycles are dangerous because they only have two wheels", and "motorcycle riders cause my medical insurance to be high because they are always crashing". and "all sportbike riders are thrill seeking idiots that must have a death wish", the list could go on and on, but it all comes down to the same theme, and that theme is that people repeat things they hear without checking to see if they are true simply because they want to believe them, we can help change that where it pertains to motorcycles, but first we need to educate ourselves, and second we need to be polite when we attempt to correct someone else.

[intimid8er]

When someone gives me a nasty look at a light about my bikes noise.

I give them a menacing look with my eyes...

then a nice ole Johnny Cash...



...kick in their door panel....

....rev the engine...dump the clutch...and wheelie out of the hole shot....


Then I wake up and realize nobody was looking at me..they're all too busy texting....

[Rickster]

That's our Tim, he still thinks he's a member of THE WILD HOG'S

[intimid8er]

Dudley...to be sure!

[inspiron]

Over here, the loudest bikes are definitely DUCATI, not Harley.

[Tempestorm]

Originally Posted by USMC_STRAT

As for the military, laws are laws and they are the same on base as off base, but no one could care less about a Marine with loud pipes as long as your bike is safety inspected, you wear all proper safety gear (goggles, gloves, long sleeves, ankle-high boots, and a DOT-approved helmet). Safety Vests are NO LONGER required by the Corps as a country-wide study by State Police departments and the DOT admitted they do absolutely nothing to make a rider more visible, nor did they help prevent any accidents. So the military got rid of that rule and I'm glad they did as I hated that thing anyways.

As a motorcycle safety rep who is in the military I just wanted to address this...

I am fairly certain that the Marines follow the same guidance with regards to PPE as every other branch of service...

IAW MCO 5100.19E
A brightly colored outer upper garment during the day and a reflective upper garment at night or a commercially available mesh/fabric vest that is bright yellow, international orange or lime green with two 1 1/2? to 2? wide vertical or horizontal reflective strips front and back. The vest is authorized for wear by Marines in uniform, and should be removed as soon as the Marine gets off the motorcycle. The garment must not be covered or concealed, such as by a backpack.


I checked the safety pages for several Marine instilations and all of them indicated that the above has not changed. Of course the policy could have been recently changed and updates are just slow in coming so I could be wrong but I would be surprised if they did remove this requirment.

I can tell you with 100% assurance that Air Force Instruction 91-207 states very clearly that a brightly colored reflective upper garmet will be worn at all times, on or off base, period. So to say, "the military got rid of that rule" is just blatantly wrong.

Personaly I do not mind wearing my vest, it goes on everytime I am on my bike. I know a lot of folks in the miliatary who ride and they complain about it or pull it off (along with a lot of their gear) as soon as they leave the base, but really is it that bad?

I am not trying to come off as an ass, I just know that there are a lot of folks on here that are affiliated with the military and I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression with regards to a blanket statment such as the one you made about military policy.

Bottom line, be safe out there everyone. It's a dangerous rode...

[omegajim]

Then I wake up and realize nobody was looking at me..they're all too busy texting..

that's last week; it's wi fi and twitter or facebook on the cell these days.

[Camp21178]

Well Rickster, all the guys that pulled in their clutches and revved their engines were riding Harleys. My son and his college friends were riding a variety of bikes including some old standards from the 70's and a couple of sport bikes and a cop pulled over the whole group and made each one take a noise level test. While they were taking the tests a Harley went by at an ear splitting decibel level. One of these kids asked the cop why he didn't go after that guy and he almost flipped. I guess the law has different levels of enforcement depending on what you ride, and how scary you look.

[Apertureguy]

I also found that if you shower less often it has a similar effect.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Rickster

we can help change that where it pertains to motorcycles, but first we need to educate ourselves, and second we need to be polite when we attempt to correct someone else.

And the bottom line IS that we need to do some honest self examination too and be sure you/I are not IN that 1%; those that do things that piss other people off and give all riders a bad rep.

And encourage your friends not to do stupid things too.

When you add up all the categories you list (and maybe a couple you didn't), I think it might be a bit more than 1%.

[NCxM50]

Originally Posted by Cirquerider

Attention and peer acceptance seem to be the biggest driver of totally open exhaust. Safety is the biggest red-herring. While a plausible excuse for noise, if it was safety, we'd all have headlight modulators and air horns, and wear fluorescent vests and full-face helmets.

Truth is, if someone was that concerned about safety, it would come out in some ways other than just a desire to have stupidly loud pipes that annoy the neighbors and other drivers. There is a HUGE difference between pipes that sound nice, and pipes that are just plain loud.
It would be one thing for someone to man up and just say "hey, i like em loud and I don't care who I annoy", doesn't make it right, but I could respect the honesty. But to me, saying you have the loud pipes for safeties sake is cop out because you know you annoy people, you know theres no good reason for it, somewhere way in the back of your brain you know it's not right, and you want to be a bad boy but not so much that you want people to actually call you out on it, so you try and justify it with the catch all of "safety" because those who don't ride "can't argue" with that, because they "don't understand". But that justification is proven false when everything ELSE you do on the bike is counter-productive to safe riding. i.e. drinking and riding, riding with a half shell if you wear a helmet at all, riding with nothing more than a t-shirt, not using your horn or signals properly (if you're bike even has signals after the mods) etc, etc.

[drgibson]

To add a different perspective on this look at AMA Pro Racing, if the amount of noise that a bike makes is a non issue then why is it that all the bikes racing in AMA Pro Racing are required to pass a noise inspection to make sure that they are not to loud. A lot of local tracks, club tracks, and riding parks have noise limitations as well.

The fact of the matter is that without these rules a lot of the venues that run races would no longer be allowed to do so because of regional noise abatement laws and the uproar from the local community.

I have a Jardine pipe on my KLR and I will be the first to tell you that it wouldn’t pass a track inspection, when I have the funds I will replace it with a quieter one. The reason I have it to begin with is for performance, thirty-six hp plus 250 lbs of me needs all the help it can get.

That being said I’m intelligent enough to realize two things; first when I leave the house at 5:30 am not to go roaring through the neighborhood, I keep the rpms down and I respect the fact that most people don’t want to be woke up by thumper.

The second thing is that it would be idiotic for me to think that my safety is in any way dependant on the amount of decibels my bike makes. My safety is dependent on my skills and awareness to my surroundings.

The moron in the cage with the radio up, or on the cell phone, or doing their makeup or nails, or reading the paper, or having a discussion with a passenger is probably not completely aware of their surroundings and the Jardine that is broadcasting my presence is for the most part lost in their distraction.

The fact of the matter is that loud pipes do risks rights, to think that having a loud bike is a right or a safety requirement is considerably an ill informed concept.

[Tab B.]

+1 DrG.!
One other small problems here is style. It is physically possible to design a good flowing, but quiet exhaust system. Today's sportbikes are certainly proof of that. They make hp per cubic inch numbers, that would make a car guy,,,, ummm,,,, arrive in his pants! When style jumps in, it buggers with the laws of physics. So many are obsessed with style, looking cool, macho, whatever. It's damn near impossible to make a quiet, good flowing exhaust, when fashion and shallow vanities dictate swoopy-doopy systems that can do nothing but BLATT. Add in equal parts of arrogance, and peer pressure, you get a rather perturbed non-riding public. Even in the larger scheme of things, the old saying still applies, "The few ruin it for the many". I'm certainly not for whisper quiet everywhere, just against the far too many open piped bikes out there. {regardless of brand or type}

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by drgibson

My safety is dependent on my skills and awareness to my surroundings.

Those that actually learn to ride have no need for loud pipes to save their life. !!

[Uncle B]

Originally Posted by Rickster

Personally I have seen first hand that loud pipes can save lives, I agree it doesn't happen a lot because as was stated most of the "noise" is generated to the rear of the bike, but in at least one incident a few years back

Originally Posted by Rickster

I was getting ready to cross a 55 mph 4 lane road from a stop sign, (I was in a truck) and I guess I wasn't paying as close attention to traffic as I should have, and I did the classic looked right at the approaching bike & didn't see it,he noticed that I started to go and pulled his clutch in and revved up his motor,when I realized how close he actually was I almost crapped my pants and slammed on the brakes, I truly deserved the one finger wave he gave me as he went by, does this mean loud pipes are a good thing???? Certainly not, but it does point out (at least to me) that they aren’t the devil some people would like you/us to think they are.

Originally Posted by Rickster

Perhaps some perspective is in order here, we are after all among friends. and if we don't stick together we will lose our rights.

You didn't hear his loud pipes until {he noticed that I started to go and pulled his clutch in and revved up his motor,} what it he had replaced his original horn with an air horn had honked it would you have heard it?

[tallannie]

What a bunch of children... GO SIT IN THE CORNER ... ALL OF YOU... NOW!

Skill riding a motorcycle will always increase your ability to avoid danger.

Loud pipes can be heard occasionally in a way that might cause someone to be noticed and thus increase their 'safety'.

Loud pipes can occasionally contribute to an attitude of a passerby that might be contemplating passing an anti-motorcycle ordnance.

Distractions from a rider's attention adds risk to the riding experience.

There are 1%ers out there who can give riders a bad name

There are 99%ers out there who can and do give riders a good name


SO GET OVER IT.. how many times does this topic have to be reborn ??

Anyone who will come out and shake hands across the aisle gets a cookie !!!



anyone who keeps this silliness up, gets a lump of coal in their stocking at Christmas....

[intimid8er]

Sign me up for coal.

It's useful to me.