Loud Pipes Risk Rights.......

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaRoller

Easy Rider your "But.....I'm not going to be baited into a fight about it here." first post is the pot calling the kettle black.

OK, now THAT is an excellent point.

Regardless of how I feel about it, having that in my sig IS inflammatory.

Taking it out would probably be a good move; I may do that.

Thanks.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by intimid8er

However I submit post #9 of this thread for your consideration....straight cut and paste....

"and the drunk, smelly, obnoxious riders that "work" them for maximum noise doesn't help any either but that's kind of another topic."

I meant that those who "work the pipes for max. noise" is a SUB-set of all those with loud pipes.......and the "drunk, smelly....." reference was indeed meant to be insulting to those who flaunt their loud pipes, not to ALL riders that have them.

[intimid8er]

Regardless of what you meant. You still typed a broad generalization of all riders with loud pipes, but thank you for clearing up your intentions.

[frostbitevinnie]

Yep, SOS are in Faribolt, MN. Pop 14,624 and that is the entire county not just the city. Most guys I ride with have loud pipes, PGR, and we are not a group of drunk hooligan 1%'s but are actually doing something positive in the community.

To me when 50+ go on a mission the noise and sight of us is something to behold. On a recent event, 700 bikes mostly with loud pipes, darn near every house we passed that had someone home came out to give a wave. Grandma on the porch, Pa on the tractor, Junior on the combine, Ma and kids, Ma Pa and kids, Grandpa and Grandma with grandkids, cars pulled over to take pics of us and take videos, folks pulling out their flags walking to the drive way and waving. The ride terminated at Camp Ripley, MN. Absolutely no problems with our noise (ever hear 700 bikes roll in??) and they even waived their normal rules of wearing gear just for us, although I think that was a mistake. We were also escorted by the police and they did not have a problem with the racket.

A speech was given by National Guard Maj. Gen. Larry Shellito said during a ceremony that it "brought a tear to his eye to see all the flags" and I also quote the Maj. Gen. “The most beautiful sound is those bikes”. I don't think the Maj. Gen. was referring to our horns.

SC Times article of the event.


I can honestly say that my pipes have warned cagers of my presence a few times and my horn in others. I still think the best policy is "ride as if you were invisible" but we all need a little extra help sometimes. As some of you know mine don't exit straight out the rear but the right rear side. Any time I am next to a cager if I wrap my pipe, 2-1 4" can, the noise is directed straight at them. Very hard to miss unless the cager is on the cell phone, eating a burger at the same time, putting on make up or shaving, and jiggling to Beyonce's newest release which many of you I think will agree is common place. What is worse? My pipes or Dumba$$ driving a cage completely unaware due to dangerous activity (some listed above) while driving??

I understand your concern Ken about loud pipes but honestly every time this subject comes up, or similar ones, you just gotta get on the bashing band wagon. Give it a rest man, you will never get anywhere arguing your point since there are tons of folks that like loud. IMHO, Dumba$$ cagers doing the things listed above not only risk my rights as a driver but also risk my life.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by frostbitevinnie

I understand your concern Ken about loud pipes but honestly every time this subject comes up, or similar ones, you just gotta get on the bashing band wagon.

OK, I think it's time for this thread to die a natural death.
My sig is gone.

That does not mean that my opinion has changed in the slightest.........and I will likely express it again in the future.

I don't object to ALL "loud" pipes, just the VERY loud ones and the riders who wear them like some kind of a badge of courage. I don't think being obnoxioius is something to be proud of.

It IS unfortunate that in trying to make that point, I have become somewhat obnoxious myself (by some folks reckoning).

[frostbitevinnie]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

OK, I think it's time for this thread to die a natural death.
My sig is gone.

That does not mean that my opinion has changed in the slightest.........and I will likely express it again in the future.

I don't object to ALL "loud" pipes, just the VERY loud ones and the riders who wear them like some kind of a badge of courage. I don't think being obnoxioius is something to be proud of.

It IS unfortunate that in trying to make that point, I have become somewhat obnoxious myself (by some folks reckoning).

I don't see any reason to get rid of your sig. I say put it back. I respect your opinion about loud pipes, you don't like them, you believe they risk our biker rights (and you're most likely correct) you're just greatly outnumbered is all. Laws are being passed to squash loud pipes. I just wish they would do something about those obnoxious loud truck that sound like crap. You know the ones I'm talking about. Loud, non performance BLAP, BLAP, BALP.

I have stated before and I will state it again. I did not buy my pipes for noise but rather for looks. I will be buying a quiet baffle this winter to tone them down since I think they are too loud and I don't want to draw unnecessary attention. I would prefer to get a performance sound out of them rather than loud. At cruising speed they are fairly quiet but when I get into the throttle they do have a very loud bark.



Ain't she a bute?

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Been pretty "civil" so far, hasn't it ??

How about not twisting what I said around so that it means something entirely different.

A statement was made "We need to stick together....." and I was honestly asking for a clarification of that statement; nothing more.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and no I don’t support a lot of the things that 1% outlaw bikers do, but I also don’t condemn all of the things they do just because I disagree with other things they do, and to be perfectly honest I think you have read enough of my posts to already know that about me, and your reason for asking that question is for the effect of “stirring the pot”, and I honestly don’t mean that in a bad way, your style is always thought provoking, and that’s a good thing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,just so long as we do like Tim suggested and keep it civil.

Also your question reminded me of a joke I heard.

This guy walks up to a beautiful red head he sees on the street and asks her if she would have sex with him for million dollars, he’s a nice looking well dressed guy so after a minute to think about it she says sure, so he reaches in his wallet, pulls out a $10, and says how much will this get me, she immediately slaps him and says “what do you think I am, some kind of whore”, and his answer is “we already established what your are, now were just haggling on the price”.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My point being we all have our limit as to how far we are willing to push the “limits”, and I’m sure that my limits, and everyone else on this forum have some category where they even exceed yours, but loud pipes just happen to be a sore spot with you more than they are for some others, and that’s OK, but you might get more converts if you use the baseball bat less, and honey more.

[frostbitevinnie]

Originally Posted by Rickster

but you might get more converts if you use the baseball bat less, and honey more.

Yep.

[Tab B.]

I have a question to this. How many other vehicles on the road are allowed to get away with NO MUFFLERS? Yes, straight pipes, period. Not too damn many! I like an exhaust that has more character than the typical OEM, but straight pipes?
I have two mufflers for my gixxer.
A "stealth"{20" lg, 1.75" core dia} for the street, and a "race" {18" lg. 2" core dia.}for drag racing/trackdays. They both have the same character, but one doesn't "PO" the neighbors. I'm sorry, straight pipes ARE being irresponsible, and rude. I don't have straight pipes on any internal combustion engine on my property.
If you want to get technical, I am a fan of "absorption type" mufflers{fiberglass packed}.
They tend to damp all frequencies equally while providing maximum straight through flow properties. To make them quieter, just make them a little longer and/or a little bigger in diameter and maybe a core dia. change. So a quiet muffler sounds like a louder one, but with the volume knob not turned up to "11". No big deal. Yes, when the packing finally blows out, they suck, but how hard is it to keep on top of that? Mechanical baffles{good ones!!} rely more on a combination of backpressure, internal volumes, and Hemholtz tuning. Done right, they are quiet, and flow very well {your typical OEM maybe}. It's just that typically, being OEM supplied, they are too quiet, and don't lend themselves to being tinkered with,,, without messing with their tuned properties. I think you fellows who aren't willing to compromise one little inch, aren't going to be happy when just about everything is as quiet as a typical econobox. When you want to point the fingers of blame, go look in the mirror.

[GeorgiaRoller]

I bought my aftermarket pipes 50% for looks and 50% for a "nice" sound to them. A nice sound to me is kinda loud but IMO not obnoxious. Just about all standard V&H, Cobra, Hard Krome...etc cruiser exhausts are somewhat loud. Most cruiser riders want the somewhat loud sound to them. Loud enough to let you know your there but not obnoxiously loud. Honestly I have a "that's just too loud" limit myself.

I have wrapped my throttle to let the dogs growl at least a dozen times in the last year to get a cagers attention. It does work at times especially when going through towns at lower speeds (35mph-45mph) and cars are about to pull out in front of you because for some reason they don't see you.

I saw a show recently on the new electric cars that are to start hitting the streets soon and one concern is how quiet they are (totally silent) and that it could cause a problem in urban area's with pedestrian crossings and people not hearing a car coming. I know, I know they should look first of course, I'm just saying its a concern that the car manufacturers are having to consider and work around. So being totally quiet isn't always a good thing either from a safety perspective. Overly obnoxious ear piercing loud isn't too enjoyable for many either.

As with most things in life either extreme on any issue is hard to defend.

[frostbitevinnie]

Tab B. I see you have a GSX1100g. Got two of them in my garage right now which reminds me I need to change my profile.

BTW, huge difference in characteristics between your gixxer and my v-twin. Really no comparison IMO besides two wheels. Only the original poster ranted about loud pipes. Like I said previously I would rather have performance sound as opposed to plain ole loud but that is a bit more difficult to obtain with a v-twin since most manuf. of v-twin pipes go for loud. Some are coming out with quieter baffles but for mine they were just recently offered.

[Tab B.]

It would be nice if the aftermarket was a bit more pro-active here. You are right that the fours are a little easier to quiet down. I do remember a co-worker who had one of the early Evo-motored Low Riders in the mid 80s. He put on a SuperTrapp Stainless dual muffled exhaust that had the typical absorption type muffler design, along with their disk setup.
With 16 disks on each end, it was louder than stock, but just cruising along, it was very,,,, ummm "melifluous". Not obnoxious at all. I think "National Cycle" makes an interesting muffler for big twins, called the "Peace Maker". It has an electric powered butterfly valve that can be opened and closed by a switch on the handlebars. The test I read, said that, closed, it was as quiet as stock, making a smidge less horsepower. Open, it was definately a more robust sound, with I think 5-6 more hp. I'm sure if you google it, something will pop up.

Yeah, I have a "G". That is my "cruiser". I nicknamed it "Big Kitty" because compared to the GSXR, it is a laid back furball that doesn't like to get too excited. Mine is bone stock, except for a jet kit. I do want to adapt a Hindle for it, for that much ballyhooed change in character{Stealth muffler}, but that is on the back burner.

Oh, and don't think I not an equal opportunity whiner. In my neighbor hood we have some young rascals on fours that are shreaking, raspy, and shrill. These "Boobs" run around town a good couple of gears lower than they need to be. How racey do you need to sound at 35 mph?

[intimid8er]

Originally Posted by Tab B.

In my neighbor hood we have some young rascals on fours that are shreaking, raspy, and shrill. These "Boobs" run around town a good couple of gears lower than they need to be. How racey do you need to sound at 35 mph?

Don't forget Tab. They're probably to scared to take the bike out of second!

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by Tab B.

I have a question to this. How many other vehicles on the road are allowed to get away with NO MUFFLERS? Yes, straight pipes, period. Not too damn many! I like an exhaust that has more character than the typical OEM, but straight pipes?
I have two mufflers for my gixxer.
A "stealth"{20" lg, 1.75" core dia} for the street, and a "race" {18" lg. 2" core dia.}for drag racing/trackdays. They both have the same character, but one doesn't "PO" the neighbors. I'm sorry, straight pipes ARE being irresponsible, and rude. I don't have straight pipes on any internal combustion engine on my property.
If you want to get technical, I am a fan of "absorption type" mufflers{fiberglass packed}.
They tend to damp all frequencies equally while providing maximum straight through flow properties. To make them quieter, just make them a little longer and/or a little bigger in diameter and maybe a core dia. change. So a quiet muffler sounds like a louder one, but with the volume knob not turned up to "11". No big deal. Yes, when the packing finally blows out, they suck, but how hard is it to keep on top of that? Mechanical baffles{good ones!!} rely more on a combination of backpressure, internal volumes, and Hemholtz tuning. Done right, they are quiet, and flow very well {your typical OEM maybe}. It's just that typically, being OEM supplied, they are too quiet, and don't lend themselves to being tinkered with,,, without messing with their tuned properties. I think you fellows who aren't willing to compromise one little inch, aren't going to be happy when just about everything is as quiet as a typical econobox. When you want to point the fingers of blame, go look in the mirror.

Your not going to get much disagreement on this forum, pretty much all the members here agree with you, but as Vinnie states a few posts down, it's hard to find an aftermarket pipe for a V Twin of any make that number one you get a chance to hear before you buy, and number two is made to do anything besides increase the noise, this is something we as riders need to get across to the people that make these products.

I have had Vance & Hines pipes on several of my bikes in the past, and found them to be on the mild side when it comes to volume increase, so I was leaning towards getting one of there Pro Pipes for my Road King when I got it, but I still held off getting one till after I had a chance to hear how loud it was on another Harley I saw at a ride I was on, and it was quite mild so I bought one, well I don't know how or why, but the pipe I got was/is a lot louder than the one I had listened to and now I'm stuck with either living with a louder bike than I like, and won't start or ride if it's before 10:00am, or shelling out another 5 to 6 hundred bucks for something else that may or may not be any better.

[texrider]

Some light reading on the subject of excessive motorcycle noise...
gwnoise.org - Reources and Information

On a side note, a city cop once asked me many questions about my lime green Versys. He clearly was taken with the bike, and when I went to leave he was astounded by how quiet it was. He commented very directly of his intense dislike of loud pipes...

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

OK, I think it's time for this thread to die a natural death.
My sig is gone.

That does not mean that my opinion has changed in the slightest.........and I will likely express it again in the future.

I don't object to ALL "loud" pipes, just the VERY loud ones and the riders who wear them like some kind of a badge of courage. I don't think being obnoxioius is something to be proud of.

It IS unfortunate that in trying to make that point, I have become somewhat obnoxious myself (by some folks reckoning).

As Vinnie said your sig doesn’t have to go, it’s how you feel, and you have every right to it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,it’s just that you get real loud real fast whenever someone disagrees with it, and I don’t think this thread is being kept alive by it either, loud pipes, helmets, guns, and religion always stir up a lively debate, and that’s a good thing too just so long as it doesn’t turn into a barroom brawl.

[Tab B.]

Sorry if I was barking too much. This issue is going to be a toughie to fix. It sort of comes down to the chicken or the egg deal. Which came first? The aftermarket wants to make what sells. Lots of people want loud pipes. Many communities have gotten lax with their existing noise laws,,,, which sends the signal that loud pipes are tolerated, so many by more of them. The average noise ceiling creeps upward. We motorcyclists are all low lifes anyways, so we make easy targets for those who will whine about almost anything. The politicians gladly jump in to pacify the whiners for their votes.
Certain groups of people get all self righteous, and raise their battle cry, and usually make even more noise in defiance.
Damn, I'm getting a headache just pondering it.
Noise to me, is sort of like alchohol. Too much is,,,,, um, well,,,, worshipping the porcelin god just ain't fun anymore.
None at all? Well, cripes, that can be as boring as hell.
Ahhhhh, drinking responsibly, that's the ticket.

[Clint]

.

[omegajim]

I'm just thinking of these biker gangs in such rural areas and the idea of "what, you lost?" concept keeps coming up.

[USMC_STRAT]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Yes, really. It is a fact.
But.....I'm not going to be baited into a fight about it here.

I hear that the military is pretty strict about following the "rules".
I wonder what they think about "outlaw pipes" on base......or ridden by a Marine off base ???

They could give two $hits my friend Rules? What rules? Every single bike on every base I ever rode on had aftermarket loud pipes

Don't be so paranoid man, no one is baiting you into anything. Fact? Where did you get your so called fact from? Personal beliefs? I was personally told by California Highway Patrolman on his duty Harley to get loud pipes or one day he would be writing up my accident report. So there goes that. I have yet to be bothered by any Police Officer about pipes. They all comment how nice the bike is and how nice the engine sounds =)