Speeding through twisties

[Nick Mystic]

We had some gorgeous riding weather here today in western NC, sunny and about 65 degrees. I took the M50 out for about 120 miles for a few hours of pleasure. The only small surprise I had was when I got on the Blue Ridge Parkway for a few miles I encountered some icy sections of road, but since I've ridden my mountain bicycle on a lot of snow and ice over the years I knew how to ride it and did not have any trouble.

While coming back down from the Parkway on a long twisty section of Rt. 181 where the speed limit varies between 45 and 55 mph I encountered a number of sport riders who were really flying through there. I've only got a few thousand miles under my belt since starting back riding this past August, so I tend to ride the curves fairly conservatively. I try to maintain a speed that would allow me to stop or avoid some unseen hazard or bad road condition waiting around the next blind curve.

Here is my question: When people ride through twisties at speeds that far exceed their sight distance are they basically relying on luck and fate that they won't round the next blind curve at 70 mph and find a patch of sand, gravel, broken down vehicle, etc. or have they developed some sort of skill set that I don't have that would allow them to avoid crashing when they come on such an unseen hazard?

[tricker]

i believe the correct definition right there is of a "squid"

[ranger04]

While it sounds like fun, they are putting there lives in the hands of luck to make it through twisties that fast, its completely insane

[Clint]

Since you didn't say what "really flying" means in miles per hour, it's tough to say. It's likely that some riders have the ability to avoid hazards at speeds significantly above posted speed limits, which are generally suited best to logging trucks.

Let's not be so quick to toss out the "squid" label just because a rider is better than you and on a sportbike.

[Kodatech]

Originally Posted by ranger04

While it sounds like fun, they are putting there lives in the hands of luck to make it through twisties that fast, its completely insane

I can lay a bike down in the turns and I use EVERY bit of cornering lean the bike is capable of.........On certain occasions. The bike I have now drags floorboard before I run out of tire or suspension, but when I had my ZRX(the one in my avatar) I had NO chicken strips on the tires.

There is one specific road I ride on where it is going right up a mountainside....back and forth over and over....and you can see all the way through EVERY turn and I love using the whole tire and using the bike for its intended purpose. All that being said, I would never ride at 10/10 on a public road. You have to leave yourself SOMETHING for the unknowns. But when pushing it to 7/10 or 8/10 you just can't outrun your eyes. Its CRAZY.

I ride with a few guys who are very responsible......most of the time. One thing that gets me is how they can do the speed limit on the highway, NOT wheelie on main street, NOT rev their engines to high hell just because, NOT do 170mph on the interstate(even though the bike is capable). Well you get the point. They just DONT do stupid things.







Except when we get one some really fun twisty roads. 3 of them in particular ALWAYS out ride their line of sight and I DONT understand why. They can be responsible at other times but not when it comes to the turns. I just let them go on. I am CERTAIN I would be able to keep up with them, but I cant bring myself to ride that way.

Sometimes I am a little embarrased of the way I ride around blind curves. Some turns on the blue ridge parkway near my home are really blind during the summer months when the trees are at full tilt. I find myself dropping down to even slightly sower than the speed limit without even realizing it because I feel very unsafe when I know in the back of my mind that I would not be able to stop the bike within my current field of vision.

I am definitly not afraid of riding and I am NOT a scared rider. I just don't see how some of you guys can out run your sight line.

I would really love to hear from the guys here (I know they are here too ) who ride faster than their sight. I am NOT looking to flame you AT ALL. I just want to know how you feel safe doing that.






once again...not looking for an argument here...I really do JUST want to know.


sorry for the long winded post too.

[busa-boy33]

IMO:

I am very conservative in twisties and really don't lean the busa down very low and I don't do the whole knee dragging thing. I am just not comfortable riding like that and I would need a few more miles under my belt before I was at a place that I wanted to attempt such things.

Now, if a rider is comfortable doing those type maneuvers then thats great and he may in-fact be a better rider for it then I am but here's the thing. I think most riders watch these bike races on t.v. and immediately think that looks like fun and they are wanting to try it. I don't know about the roads around your neck of the woods but here you don't have to go very far before you notice that these roads or interstate highways are not conditioned for extreme riding. Pot holes dot the roads everywhere, uneven highway lanes, and of course all the debris that litter the roads.
If you can not see far enough ahead of you to judge the condition of the highway then I think its fool hearty to blindly go into high speed, race like riding mode. Your taking a HUGE risk no matter how great a rider you are.
You may be skilled indeed on a race track where the roads are usually maintained with bike racing in mind but open public highways are always a risk and going into the curves at mach 1 puts you, your bike and others in an unnecessary risk.

So are you being a squid if you ride like that? not so much as it is just being foolish.

like i said thats just my thoughts here on it.

[buster]

In my experience, people who ride like that over here are(predominantly) weekend warriors, they use thier bike every weekend from April 'till October, and have very few spills... why? PURE UNADULTERATED LUCK, they do not have the experience to assess road conditions - tell tale signs of road surface breaking, leading to debris a few hundred yards on. etc, etc. so they just ride at full bollox and blind.

Prime example, my pal rides an Aprilia (occasionally) but always at full tilt, he didn't even know that the rock salt used over here leaves a 'greasy' residue, particularly in the lane center and the crown of the road, so, when I explained this to him - a wee bit of a light went on.

This is not to say that we can't all get caught out with a tricky road surface, but those of us that show the road and our own capabilities more respect, stand a much better chance of clocking one up at the next birthday

[TechJD]

With Age Comes Wisdom!

[themeatmanlandry]

I'm afraid to answer this.

Most of the corners I ride are blind. I didn't buy a motorcycle to go slow, I have no skillset that allows me to sense things I can't see, and usually my approach to a road hazard is reactive (as opposed to proactive) so I guess . . . luck? <gulps>

[Clint]

Nick hasn't answered my question yet, and some of you are making assumptions. Like I said, they could be going 10-20 mph over the limit and still have plenty of stopping distance.

[busa-boy33]

but Clint.. if they are going lets say.. 75 mph in a 55 mph zone and the curve they are leaning into has pebbles in it the only thing I can see is the bike spinning out from underneath them. I mean, how good is stopping distance if your attempting to knee drag through a curve?

Not being a smart$$$ here just tossing some thoughts back and forth..

[Clint]

Well, 20 mph over doesn't usually get you close do dragging a knee. That's why I'm trying to get more information out of Nick. Was it 20 over or 30-40 over?

[buster]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Well, 20 mph over doesn't usually get you close do dragging a knee. That's why I'm trying to get more information out of Nick. Was it 20 over or 30-40 over?

No need for assumptions, if you cannot go from current speed to stop in the distance you can see, then too fast.

Now I know there are the exceptions like in the 20-30 speed ranges but if you are at 40 and above, then see para. 1

Thingaboutitasec....

You're doing 40 into a bend, approaching the same bend at 40, is Joe the Taxi mutual approach speed, 80MPH, if something goes wrong and you can't stop then Joe will win this particular round.

We do not have to concern ourselves about Joe being able to stop, we only have to play our own game, as Tim managed to do just a couple of weeks ago.


Now I know people will be able to pick holes in this logic, however, it has kept me rubber side down since 1982.

[tricker]

Originally Posted by buster

however, it has kept me rubber side down since 1982.

yup... mind went straight in the gutter when i read this...

[Clint]

Originally Posted by buster

No need for assumptions, if you cannot go from current speed to stop in the distance you can see, then too fast.

Agreed. The assumption is that the riders in question were doing so. I'd wager they weren't. At a minimum, I won't presume to call them squids without knowing.

[buster]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Agreed. The assumption is that the riders in question were doing so. I'd wager they weren't. At a minimum, I won't presume to call them squids without knowing.

100%

[tricker]

I admit on certain subjects i assume a lot.. I guess this is one of them

[Nick Mystic]

I'm not sure of the exact speed the sport cyclists were going since they were coming toward me, rather than passing me from behind where I could look at my own speed and then make an estimate of how much faster they were traveling. Having said that, I would have to say that judging from the lean angle of some of the riders and their apparent speed as they approached my direction I would estimate we are talking about 70 - 80 mph in a 45 -55 mph speed zone.

I'm not trying to be vague about the speed limit, it's just that I remember seeing the signs change from time to time and I didn't really have to worry about speeding since I couldn't bring myself to ride the turns faster than the posted limits. I will say, that a few of the riders came around the curves so fast it gave me such a start that I had to back off my throttle thinking they were coming right at me to take me out before they leaned back into the curve and I could see they weren't going to slide out and take me with them.

There wasn't a doubt in my mind that the riders going at these speeds would have next to no chance of avoiding anything in their lane without coming into the opposite lane, if that were an option. In most cases it wasn't an option since there were a fair number of people out driving this section of road.

My question really was directed more at riders who aren't going at these break neck speeds, but instead are just riding at speeds that out pace their sight distances. If the speed limit is 45 mph and you can safely see ahead at 35 mph and someone is doing 50 mph I can see how a highly skilled rider might well be able to minimize, or avoid all together, an accident when something pops up around the bend, such as loose gravel. However, aren't such riders also playing a bit of a roulette wheel whenever they exceed their line of sight on a curve or hill, even if they are exceptionally skilled?

[Clint]

I have a little voice inside my head that starts screaming at me in those situations, be it from a curve, darkness, fog, whatever. I need to know what's coming.

I guess my only other point would be that some have a distorted view of what's a reasonable stopping distance because they haven't practiced enough themselves. Not pointing any fingers here, but a skilled rider can stop amazingly quickly.

[busa-boy33]

Well for me, I know my limitations good enough to guard my riding when going into a curve.

For example, that pic of me riding in the sig.. well that curve is extremely dangerous because its a hairpin turn almost 180 degs. I saw guys ride that curve knee dragging at high rates of speed. Notice how I am riding? Not leaning all that much and certainly not going very fast.
Why? there are loose pebbles all in that curve, you can't see too far ahead of you either coming or going and finally one thing I have noticed big time...

Cars going into curves seem to hug and or at times cross that center line quite a bit. So if your flying through a curve your piece of the road is even less a lot of the times if an on coming car or truck is coming toward you. In some cases I've seen cars narrowly miss the biker by inches due to the car drifting over into their lane..

The risk factors in my view are just to high to take a big chance on it...