Getting used to a bike...

[MikeHump]

Thanks guys, all of this info is great. I enjoy these forums, I learn a lot from you guys/girls. I know all of you look down upon getting a sportbike for a first bike, and I appreciate you giving me advice despite the fact that I purchased a sportbike for my first bike. I still think it's too early for even a beginner track day for myself, I was planning on mid-late summer of 2008 for a first track day, if I'm comfortable by that time.

[themeatmanlandry]

<i wrote this about 5 times, but nothing's working, so . . . >

You pegged it in second? Damn. I've been riding for 4 1/2 years (30,000 miles+) and I've only had mine to 11 grand. No wonder you scared yourself. Remember the satanic growl of the motor once that flapper valve in the exhaust train opens? E-vil. E-vil, I say, e- . . . -vil. Scares me %%%%less everytime I hear it. Well, that and the fact that the bike feels like it's trying to shoot away faster than my body is.

You picked one hell of a bike to learn to ride on, huh? That's like learning to shoot with an elephant gun.

WRT corners here's my suggestion: when you are making an intersection, you don't need to be leaning way over or worrying about how fast you're going and stuff . . . too much little trash out there that'll put you down. When you take an intersection, you just keep it cool, especially the right hand. Ham-fisting in regular traffic's a good way to toss a new bike (ahem :whistles. Watch other (smart, non-squid) riders and you'll see . . . they're not tearing into the service station with a knee down, they're just riding. It doesn't look as cool as Rossi in turn 2, but hey. . .

When you want to feel the quasi-orgasmic sensation of cornering, you need to find a nice twisty road with good, clean (well, as clean as you can find) corners. Ride this road until you know it (sandy corners, damaged pavement, bad places to run wide, radar spots, etc.), then start gradually speeding up on the turns, always leaving yourself a 15-25% safety margin. Never ride 100% on the street.

When I first bought my Bandit 600 (my old bike), I couldn't even get out of the parking lot. Now, I'm knifing corners at 2-3 times the "suggested" speeds.

Hang in there, it takes a while to learn safely and correctly.

IMPORTANT: Ride alone at first. You're more likely (IMO) to get killed following a skilled rider than riding alone. You develop a false sense of security; your ego can take over; or you may simply not realize you're in over your head until it's too late. Ride alone for 10K miles.

[inspiron]

WRT corners: You probably still have the "death grip" on the bars, so you are fighting yourself to take the bike around a corner.

Parking lot practice will help here. Relax. Breathe. Remember that while the bike is rolling, you use counter-steering. Push the right grip away from you, and the bike will lean to the right.
But you have to be relaxed, otherwise you'll push with one arm and hold against the grip with the other, fighting yourself.

Oh, and don't forget to LOOK (and I mean TURN YOUR FACE AND HEAD) where you want to go. The bike will follow your face. If you look straight ahead, that's where the bike will go. Don't look anywhere you don't want to go - that's called target fixation. It has cost many riders their lives. I lost a friend this summer - she fixated and went over a cliff.

[MikeHump]

Originally Posted by themeatmanlandry

<
IMPORTANT: Ride alone at first. You're more likely (IMO) to get killed following a skilled rider than riding alone. You develop a false sense of security; your ego can take over; or you may simply not realize you're in over your head until it's too late. Ride alone for 10K miles.

Yeah, I've realized this already. My buddy has an R1 and loves to ride stupid. I mean really stupid. I think he's a good rider, but he rides like the roads are race tracks, and cars are obstacles. He weaves and splits traffic at around 100 mph, in 40 mph zones. I've ridden with him twice. The first time I knew how he was going to ride, and I just let him go. The second time, as long as he wasn't weaving/splitting traffic, I tried to keep up just a little bit, and as long as I wasn't going too fast. Well, I was going too fast the whole time and felt really uncomfortable. I didn't split traffic or weave in and out, but I was still riding too fast for my own good (only about 70 mph at the time, 3 weeks into riding) It was then that I decided not to ride with him again. I wouldn't mind going to a track with him though, that would probably be fun. I'll take your advice on the 10k miles though. Sounds like a good idea.

[inspiron]

Originally Posted by MikeHump

Yeah, I've realized this already. My buddy has an R1 and loves to ride stupid. I mean really stupid. I think he's a good rider, but he rides like the roads are race tracks, and cars are obstacles.

Nope, he's NOT a good rider. He's been lucky so far, but he's not good. A good rider knows better than to "ride stupid."

Track riding should be done ON THE TRACK. Knee-dragging can be a real blast, but not on the streets. There are just too many variables that aren't under control out on the street. You don't know if there is a nasty pothole/road kill/oil slick/whatever around the next bend. On a track, the chances are pretty low - you can see around every turn, everyone is going in the same direction and there is no cross traffic/intersections/soccer moms/police pursuits/whatever to deal with.

[MikeHump]

Good point. Either way, I'm staying away from riding with him.

[PhotoJoe]

Disclaimer: I've taken the MSF and have about 5,000 miles under my belt.....on a trail 70. So, the following is just a regurgitation of what I've learned here:

A quick question, first. Were you more comfortable on the bike you used in the MSF? If so, is there any way to pick up a 250, or something smaller and tamer than what you have just to get comfortable. I'm not saying that you should sell yours, but many people here have said many times that you will be a better rider - sooner (a.k.a. out having more fun sooner) by starting on a smaller bike and working up. I will take that advice when I can buy my first real bike. I think it is here that I read several people saying that if two people started riding at the same time, one on a Ninja 250R or comparable and one on your bike, the person on the 250R would win in a twisty race for many years as experience is built....not that they condone racing. Used only as an example.

[MikeHump]

I am actually more comfortable on my bike than the ones in the MSF class. Probably because I rode the bike in the MSF class for 2 days, and I've been riding my bike for about a month. That probably is true about being a better rider sooner. My financial status will not permit me to buy a smaller bike to learn on. I'm actually not as scared as I make out to be around corners, it just always feels like the bike is going to fall over when I'm leaning into the turn, or that the back end will come out at any given time, even though I'm not hard on the throttle. And when I'm going into a turn at say 25 mph when I'm used to 15, I don't have the confidence yet to push harder and lean farther into the direction that I'm going.

[PhotoJoe]

Originally Posted by MikeHump

I know all of you look down upon getting a sportbike for a first bike, and I appreciate you giving me advice despite the fact that I purchased a sportbike for my first bike.

Most look down on the R bike as a first, not all. However, they don't look down on you. You are smart to take it easy, ask, listen and learn.

Stay safe and have fun!

[wookie]

Damn you, Mike. Now you're forcing me to post three times in a day.

I don't know about others but I wasn't looking or talking down at you. Rather, I read your post and I start to reflect on my own experiences since April 19, 2005.

On that fateful day, I bought myself a GZ250 and swung one leg over it and joined this forum and my life was forever changed.

Phase 1

During my first week with the GZ250, I practiced in the parking lots, in the back roads, and some light city traffics. I rode at least 10 hours during that week before I felt comfortable enough to venture beyond a 5-mile radius range from my home (do a search of my earliest posts and you will see just how much help I've received from this forum's member, like gixxerdale, inspiron, unclebob, trapper, meatlandry, to name a few, and how excited I was about riding). After about two weeks, I took it to the local DMV parking every day and practice for at least an hour each day until I passed the test on Friday, May 13, 2005. What did I practice ? Turns, 5 mph, 10 mph, 20 mph, left turn, right turns, figure-8's, chicanes, countersteering, turning my head and look beyond the turns, hard-braking with front only, rear only, both front and rear, etc. I even took it into a local canyon (the San Gabriel Canyon road) and had my first few twisty rides before I even passed the DMV test.

Phase 2

Two weeks after I passed the test, on the freeway doing about 65 mph, the damned intake valve broke off and fell into the cylinder. Then for the next two months while my GZ250 was getting a new engine, a friend of mine lent me his Ducati Supersport 800 and hence my first encounter with a sportbike. It was like going from a Ford Model T straight to a Lamborgini Contach. It took me at least a whole month and about 2000 or 3000 miles on the aforementioned canyon road (yeah I put 2k miles on my friend's bike) before I got used to riding a sportbike. This is also when I started to shift my body around, slide that fat bottom out, stick that knee out, etc.

Then I got my GZ back. And I started to drag pegs, heels, pipes, etc. because I got used to lean the bikes while riding the Duc. I had it for another 4500 miles before trading it in for my own sportbike, an SV650S (slightly underpowered compared to the Ducati 800 but still plenty), in January of 2006. That's when I discovered this little paradise near my home, a twisty road barely 3 miles from my home. It's about 3.7 miles each way and in that 3.7 miles, you will see over 33 turns, some 90-degree corners, some hairpins, switchbacks, some long and fast sweepers. At that time, I started to ride with another friend who'd also recently start to ride (and he bought a brand new Ninja ZX-6R as his first bike). We'd head out to that canyon every afternoon and just do several runs of that canyon. In the beginning, it used to take us about 7 minutes to go the 3.7 miles, then after 3 months and about 3000 miles later, We were able to cover the same distance under 5 minutes 30 seconds. That's when I bought a used GSX-R600.

Phase 3

If the Ducati 800 was a Contach, then the gixxer was like a Ferrari F360. Super fast and agile. Shortly after I bought my GSX-R600, I attended Keith Code's superbike school. And that was an eye opener, especially in terms of how late you can get into the corner before you need to start turning (and hence, the delayed-apexing), how fast you can countersteer and do snap-turns, and how fast you can take a turn, etc. To date, that's the best $700 I've ever spend on a bike. And ever since that class, I've a lot more confidence my ability to judge the turn and determine the SAFEST (not necessary the fastest) line to take a corner (although the speed kind of came in as a bonus). Also, after the class, I continued to ride (both the SV and the GSX-R) and practiced the techniques in the 3.7-mile paradise while my riding buddy started to buy one bike after another (Ducati 999S, 794R, GSX-R1000) and spent more time adding all kinds of performance mods on his bikes, than riding. Before too long, at least on that road, I was riding my SV one-handed faster than my buddy could do with his GSX-R1000 or Duc 999S. And then one day, about 6 months after the school, 18 months after my first ever ride, with about 24,000 miles among the SV, my friend's Ducati, and the gixxer 6 hun, the unthinkable happened. I got me knee down.

Phase 4

At that point, I realized I was going way too fast for that road. And I started to do track days. Also, an opportunity came up for me to acquire an 06 GSX-R1000 at a good price (because the '07s were coming out). Was there a good logical reason for me to move up ? Nope. I wasn't anywhere near pushing the limit of the Gixxer 6 hun so I suppose you can say that I caved into the "vanity" side of the force. And that Gixxer1k is like a freaking Enzo. Anyway, I've done 7 track days this year, with my SV, Gixxer 6 (just before I sold it), the Duc 749S, and the Gixxer 1k. Fastest I've ever gone ? About 150 mph on the main-straight of California Speedway going WOT, 13.5k rpm on the tach, 3rd gear on the Gixxer1k. But really, that's the boring part. The fun part is hanging off and getting that knee down in the corners and passing some dude riding a brand-new CBR1kRR while I was riding an SV And each time I head to the track, my goal was not to set a lap record nor to beat the dude riding the late-model R1. Rather, my objective is to work my techniques, body positions, visual queues, etc. I still ride twisties and canyon roads. I just dial it back quite a bit. I also take newbie sportbike riders to the twisties with me; I just scan the rear mirror frequently to check up on the newbie and keep the speed under the posted speed limit.

And I'm still learning....

As for you, Mike, read both volumes of "Proficient Motocycling" (I did and they're as good as everyone's been saying about them, and more) and practice, practice, and practice. There is no set rule on "how good you're going to be within x number of miles or months." It all varies. The important thing is keep riding and practicing (have I said the word "practice" again ?). You will get there. NO NEED TO HURRY. When riding your gixxer, clamp on the tank with your knees, lean your body forward and use the stomach muscle to hold it in position, and bend your elbows. That way, you won't be straining your wrist and you can countersteer more easily (or is it easilier ?). Since going full throttle concerns you a bit, DON'T do that any more. Keep it under 6k RPM at least for the next 2 to 3 months. Find yourself some twisties and start slow. Go SMOOOOOOTH with throttle. If you're interested, I know this girl in SF who's gone through all 4 levels of the Keith Code School (she's been asked by the school to be a riding coach) and she can help you. She's not superfast (still mighty fast) but she's got impeccable form and techniques. PM me and I will forward her contact info.

Oh, BTW, at intersections, 15 mph is plenty fast. There are all kinds of craps at intersections, dirt, gravel, oil, water, ice cream, bubble bum, newspaper, Wal-mart plastic bags, etc. and any one of them can give you a really bad day. Someone once told me: "ride like you own the road and the road will own you." Take it easy on the road.

A little thing you should know about me. I first got my hand on a bike when I was already 34 years old. I'd like to think I probably got a cooler head, less testosterone, etc.

And let the flame begin....

[tricker]

i'm still in awe of 3 posts in one day by wookie.... quite the impressive time line of events..

[palanon]

See, this is why I love this place!

Excellent write-up Wookie.

If you can, mike, take advantage of the hands on instruction that Wookie may be able to set up. That kind of one on one is priceless. Well, maybe not. That kind of instruction can cost upward of $2,500 at a track school for a weekend. Jump on it.

Once again, great job Wookie.

[Alan_Hepburn]

Originally Posted by MikeHump

I've put about 1000 miles on my bike since I got it a month or so ago, yet I'm still not too comfortable riding it. I'm scared to death of corners (even at 15 mph) and also scared to death of accelerating even slightly fast.

If you haven't found it yet there's a great web site that has a ton of articles that will help - just surf on over to this article for a good essay on turning that fear into respect. Once you've digested that, take a look at the other 230+ articles there. It's a lot of reading, but well worth it in the end.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by MikeHump

If you believe that I shouldn't be riding, well I'm sorry to let you know that I'm going to continue to ride, regardless of your opinion.

OK, so then why did you come here and ask for advise?
You got what you asked for: Honest advise.
Based on your first post, I think it was reasonable advise too.

Turns scare me, acceleration scares me........everything about riding scares me. It's pretty obvious to me that one of two things is true: You are not cut out to ride a bike OR You will never fully enjoy the experience because you have the wrong bike for you. This is a summary of what a couple of others have already said.

You might become very proficient with the bike you have after 6 months and a few thousand miles........OR.........you might be dead before then. Think about it carefully.

[MikeHump]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

OK, so then why did you come here and ask for advise?
You got what you asked for: Honest advise.
Based on your first post, I think it was reasonable advise too.

Turns scare me, acceleration scares me........everything about riding scares me. It's pretty obvious to me that one of two things is true: You are not cut out to ride a bike OR You will never fully enjoy the experience because you have the wrong bike for you. This is a summary of what a couple of others have already said.

You might become very proficient with the bike you have after 6 months and a few thousand miles........OR.........you might be dead before then. Think about it carefully.

Reasonable advice would also be realizing that I'm going to keep this bike and learn on this bike, and helping me to overcome these fears, like what wookie, inspiron, landry, and others have been doing on this thread. And I do greatly appreciate all of the advice they've given, I haven't ridden since they've given this advice, but I've already learned a lot.

[wookie]

Mike:

My friend has just replied. She said she's happy to work with you. I have just PMed you her email address.

Have fun !!!

Damn, that's my 4th post of the day.

Kay, please ban me for the next 4 days. Thanks.

[IntruderCruiser]

I turned over 100,000 miles in 1981 and I still tell everyone that it takes 10,000 miles of seat time to really know a bike - (which is a bit extreme)but 10,000 miles for me is about 6 months or less of riding -

take it easy find someone who is willing to lead you around corners -- first slowly and then building up speed - If I lived a bit closer, I would be glad to help you --

read Proficient Motorcycling - they are very good books

take care and ride safe

[inspiron]

Don't worry about it, Tom. I won't tell anyone.

[kay]

Originally Posted by wookie

Damn, that's my 4th post of the day.
Kay, please ban me for the next 4 days. Thanks.

Why do you have to stick to one post a day????
I'm not understanding the reasons but if you say so.

By the way, Mike, I think it's great that this lady is able to help you. There is nothing better than getting first hand guidance.

And everything has been said so there's nothing more to add without confusing you, but good luck and ride safe.

[Thundurburd]

to what Alan_Hepburn said.

The "Motorcycle Tips and Techniques Safety Forum" has 231 tips that cover all aspects of safe motorcycle riding from small details to the physics of cornering. Don't expect to find anything on racing though.