Some elightenment about the current state of the MSF - Motorcycle-Journal Forums

**Clint** · 08-16-2007, 11:15 AM

For those of you genuinely interested in the well-being of motorcyclists, here's a (biased, I'll admit) report on the current state of the MSF, being sponsored entirely by large corporations. No, it's not a government program. It's been bullied and manipulated lately by it's benefactors, and despite the good intentions of many rider coaches and others, an alarming number of deaths have occurred recently.

I recommend viewing it with the sound OFF. There's nothing of value in the soundtrack and it's quite distracting.

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I AGREE

I belong to another forum that's geared solely toward motorcycling safety and the industry. It's run by the man responsible for most of the "gems" I keep in my signature. He's dedicated to the study and promotion of motorcycling safety, and if you're into deep, technical discussion, you might check it out.

All Things Motorcycle

LCA_koolaid37 · 08-16-2007, 11:19 AM

Another reason to hate Harley Davidson. Viva la revolucion! You bring the pitchforks, I'll get the Haagen-Dazs.

artistic_gore · 08-16-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LCA_koolaid37

Another reason to hate Harley Davidson. Viva la revolucion! You bring the pitchforks, I'll get the Haagen-Dazs.

I'm all for hating harley but I have to admit I saw a '74 sportster today that looked pretty sweet.

palanon · 08-16-2007, 01:27 PM

Hmmm. Even being biased, I wasn't aware MSF had been usurped by the manufacturers.

Tab B. · 08-16-2007, 01:58 PM

Hi Rowdy
I was an instructor with the state of NH, for 10 years, under the old system.
Just an instructor, not a chief, although I was a site manager for a few years too. I was wondering about some of the things in that clip, and it does bother me. I have spoken to some of the instructors that I trusted, and they seemed to think the BRC was easier to teach, but that it was dumbed down some too. That saddened me. You don't have to be a genius to figure that was so they could flush more students through the course. I'm not privy to the big picture on any of this, but I do remember when Harley was getting involved. I was almost shocked when I learned that the Buell Blast was going to be their bike of choice for the "Riders Edge". I'm sure the bike itself is fine as it stands, but I have seen many, many Suzuki GN125s, wheelie and/or get looped by beginning students. The extra grunt from that substantially bigger engine is only asking for trouble. Before I left the MSF, our chief was telling us about BIG changes in the wind. When I left, he subtly hinted that I left at the right time. I left because I wanted to get back out and ride more. Little did I know.
Sadly, if the BRC is flawed, and changes aren't in the forecast, the students have little or no recourse. What other remotely viable training is out there for the beginner?? I still recommend the training, knowing that. I hope change does come, but I'm skeptical.

**Clint** · 08-16-2007, 02:21 PM

Thanks for your insight, Tab, and those are my exact concerns. I wonder if HD's choice of bike was responsible for any of those five deaths.

sunny · 08-16-2007, 02:42 PM

that is just not good. so often i've been recommending the msf to people who ask about getting to ride.

**Clint** · 08-16-2007, 03:07 PM

Yeah, but I still think you should. There's definitely a benefit to it, even now. Many new riders start out with some pretty bad habits unless corrected.

Tab B. · 08-16-2007, 03:10 PM

Sunny, I would keep on doing that if I were you. I still do. Beginners have to get something, and whether or not we like what is happening, it is still the best deal in town. I think the bigger concerns that Rowdy, myself, and others have, is how the corporate world's influence isn't always a good thing. I'm not involved in any way with the MSF now. Heck, when I was, I wouldn't have been in any position to do anything about it anyways. I was just one of the dudes and dudettes, standing in the parking lot, helping our sport. The instructors are still out there doing it. I don't doubt their sincerity.

08-16-2007, 11:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
LCA_koolaid37 Eternal Vigilante Joined: Sep 2006 Bike: 2001 VZ800 Location: MO Posts: 1,279	Another reason to hate Harley Davidson. Viva la revolucion! You bring the pitchforks, I'll get the Haagen-Dazs. __________________

08-16-2007, 01:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
palanon No Significant Other Joined: Apr 2006 Bike: 2003 Bandit 1200S Location: Newmarket, NH Posts: 2,326	Hmmm. Even being biased, I wasn't aware MSF had been usurped by the manufacturers. __________________ " In the name of the Speedo, the Tach and the Holy Throttle, amen. "

08-16-2007, 02:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
sunny Leaned over, knee down Joined: Nov 2004 Bike: '97 suzuki savage, '90 honda shadow, '75 kh400, and a broom Location: fort worthless Posts: 4,678	that is just not good. so often i've been recommending the msf to people who ask about getting to ride. __________________ "blah blah blah, the world revolves around me, blah blah blah, your perception of events can't possibly be valid, blah blah blah, i wasn't there but i know everything about everything, blah blah blah." - 95% of the male population. you WISH this post was brought to you by rum.

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08-16-2007, 01:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tab B. Third gear and cruising Joined: May 2007 Bike: 86 GSXR750G, 93 GSX1100G, 89 YSR50 Location: Kingston NH Posts: 507	Hi Rowdy I was an instructor with the state of NH, for 10 years, under the old system. Just an instructor, not a chief, although I was a site manager for a few years too. I was wondering about some of the things in that clip, and it does bother me. I have spoken to some of the instructors that I trusted, and they seemed to think the BRC was easier to teach, but that it was dumbed down some too. That saddened me. You don't have to be a genius to figure that was so they could flush more students through the course. I'm not privy to the big picture on any of this, but I do remember when Harley was getting involved. I was almost shocked when I learned that the Buell Blast was going to be their bike of choice for the "Riders Edge". I'm sure the bike itself is fine as it stands, but I have seen many, many Suzuki GN125s, wheelie and/or get looped by beginning students. The extra grunt from that substantially bigger engine is only asking for trouble. Before I left the MSF, our chief was telling us about BIG changes in the wind. When I left, he subtly hinted that I left at the right time. I left because I wanted to get back out and ride more. Little did I know. Sadly, if the BRC is flawed, and changes aren't in the forecast, the students have little or no recourse. What other remotely viable training is out there for the beginner?? I still recommend the training, knowing that. I hope change does come, but I'm skeptical.

08-16-2007, 03:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tab B. Third gear and cruising Joined: May 2007 Bike: 86 GSXR750G, 93 GSX1100G, 89 YSR50 Location: Kingston NH Posts: 507	Sunny, I would keep on doing that if I were you. I still do. Beginners have to get something, and whether or not we like what is happening, it is still the best deal in town. I think the bigger concerns that Rowdy, myself, and others have, is how the corporate world's influence isn't always a good thing. I'm not involved in any way with the MSF now. Heck, when I was, I wouldn't have been in any position to do anything about it anyways. I was just one of the dudes and dudettes, standing in the parking lot, helping our sport. The instructors are still out there doing it. I don't doubt their sincerity.

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