Is the MSF Beginners, novice, expert courses enough???

[GABRIEL]

I just wanted to know if you guys felt that the training you recieved in the MSF courses were enough? Do you feel as if they prepared you for the dangers out on the open roads? Heres an article about motorcycle deaths increasing and surpringly 40 of the 42 fatilities were riders 40 years of age and over.

http://www.boston.com/news/education...424521?mode=PF

[Scott58]

Realistically, nothing prepares you for all the dangers. Even experienced riders die on motorcycles. You can however reduce your level of risk with practice practice and more practice. Good luck.

[PENJO]

Originally Posted by GABRIEL

I just wanted to know if you guys felt that the training you recieved in the MSF courses were enough? Do you feel as if they prepared you for the dangers out on the open roads? Heres an article about motorcycle deaths increasing and surpringly 40 of the 42 fatilities were riders 40 years of age and over.

http://www.boston.com/news/education...424521?mode=PF

Gaby,

It seems that things are changing with the MSF courses. Here in PA sinces january people must take the written test prior to get the lerner's permit and finally the riding course. it seems that all those things are working towards betteroing the education part for MC riding ed. In that article you cited there i liked the part of considering even commercial school for MC riding ed. Let's hope that if that comes out it is at least fair to comsumers. But knowing how difficult can be to get into one of the classes now then commercial would be a plus IMHO.
Education should expand to other drivers as well, to accept MC on the roads. Cagers remain a threat.

[Oaf]

Actually only 22 were older than 40 and out of the whole bunch only 2 had taken a safety course.

One of things that surprises me is that there is no manadatory training requirement. Here in Ontario, you take a dead simple written test and take a simple skill test you get your M1 learners permit. However if you tell them that you are going to take a safety course, you get your M1 with no road test and you're free to hop on a bike and ride in traffic! That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If you are going to operate a machine where your life and the life of the public is at risk then you should have to show competency before getting on one.

[GABRIEL]

Originally Posted by PENJO

Gaby,

It seems that things are changing with the MSF courses. Here in PA sinces january people must take the written test prior to get the lerner's permit and finally the riding course. it seems that all those things are working towards betteroing the education part for MC riding ed. In that article you cited there i liked the part of considering even commercial school for MC riding ed. Let's hope that if that comes out it is at least fair to comsumers. But knowing how difficult can be to get into one of the classes now then commercial would be a plus IMHO.
Education should expand to other drivers as well, to accept MC on the roads. Cagers remain a threat.

I agree with you 100% the only thing is you have a few riders that do things that really get on the nerves of a few cage drivers and forever unless they have alot of knowledge about good riders there image of motorcyslist are forever tainted.

[PENJO]

Originally Posted by Oaf

Actually only 22 were older than 40 and out of the whole bunch only 2 had taken a safety course.

One of things that surprises me is that there is no manadatory training requirement. Here in Ontario, you take a dead simple written test and take a simple skill test you get your M1 learners permit. However if you tell them that you are going to take a safety course, you get your M1 with no road test and you're free to hop on a bike and ride in traffic! That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If you are going to operate a machine where your life and the life of the public is at risk then you should have to show competency before getting on one.

I like that in Ontario . I think is nice. It is up to the individual. If you know that you don't have experience with the machines then wait until you some experience to handle it. The person that hops on with a license issued that way would hop on the machine without a license as well.
Ontario is just giving its people the benefit of the doubt. Its people think they a cheating the system by getting the little paper and not the training.
We need to start being responsible for ourselves and not have the Gov., fathering us at every step.

[PENJO]

Originally Posted by GABRIEL

I agree with you 100% the only thing is you have a few riders that do things that really get on the nerves of a few cage drivers and forever unless they have alot of knowledge about good riders there image of motorcyslist are forever tainted.

Amen brother!

As I type this the house is rumbling. Some jets just passed by pretty fast and low. Most likely going to the Willow Grove Air Station. It feels good.

[Fishpart]

Penjo is correct about Pa, I was glad to see they changed to taking written test first because that has cut down on some knuckle heads getting bikes. But even after the MSF course you need to continue to pratice your skills and use forums like this to learn from Lessons Learned by other riders (It's how we do it in the military). Always remember all cages are out to kill you!

[Louis]

Is doesn't prepare you, nothing can. However I feel it gives you the awareness to avoid the basic mistakes and the tools to get yourself out of most trouble.

Practice makes perfect, since perfection doesn't exist just keep practicing!

[stp1971]

As everyone else has said...practice. Any practice is better than no practice. But what the MSF does do for you is open your eyes to things you may not be aware of and to look for scenarios in the real world.

Soak up as much info as possible. Ask questions. Read books. Don't ride beyond your ability, the bikes ability, the headlights at night, and don't ride faster than you can react to. This is the stuff that will help keep you on the safe side of riding.

Ride like a squid and you may die like a squid.

[PENJO]

Originally Posted by Louis

Is doesn't prepare you, nothing can. However I feel it gives you the awareness to avoid the basic mistakes and the tools to get yourself out of most trouble.

Practice makes perfect, since perfection doesn't exist just keep practicing!

AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Aleluya!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dragbar]

The problem with MSF currently is the amount of actual good instructors out there and the amount of classes.

Many of those that don't take it, don't because of lack of classes. When their on a waiting list for 4-6 months, it becomes all too easy to just forget about it.

[DrBob]

MSF doesn't prepare you for the real world on a motorycle any more than learning to paint with a brush prepares you to be an artist. One makes you a paint brush holder, the other a handlebar holder. You just get the basic skills, and experience teaches you the rest. I have been riding for over 21 years and turned over three quarters of a million miles on two wheels. Yet I still gain experience and knowledge every time I get on my bike.

[PENJO]

Originally Posted by dragbar

The problem with MSF currently is the amount of actual good instructors out there and the amount of classes.

Many of those that don't take it, don't because of lack of classes. When their on a waiting list for 4-6 months, it becomes all too easy to just forget about it.

You are correct. This seems to be main factors on people's approach to be licensed.
In my limited experience with this, it seems to me that there is a big increase in awareness about MC and need on MC Lic. I don't know if it is because MC is becoming more popular now and people are increasingly more interested but it certainly appears as if people are trying to do it right. (Except the squids that ride with their helmets attached to the lack rather than on their head, oh and with flip flap slippers and sport socks). Everytime I see one (of course they all look like they are high on something) they remind me about the circus' clowns. There is plenty of them in the streets of North Philadelphia.

Hopefully, with increase in demand there will be increase in class schedule and the course being offered even into the fall/winter season as weather permit. Another option could be commercial classes from the areas Community Colleges or equal schools. Just ideas!

[inspiron]

The safety training I took recently had 2 parts. The morning was focused on "me and my bike" - learning to control the bike in unstable situations: Riding a 40 foot long, 3 foot wide path in no less than 20 seconds, riding circles and figure-8s as slow as possible, etc. These things help you get a better grip on how the bike will respond in certain situations, but are purely "parking lot" skills.

The afternoon session was focused on how to ride curves - including how to keep your head when leaning around a left-hand turn. Then there was a short group ride, with the rules for proper group riding (formation when in cities, keep going straight (following the road) if you lose sight of the guy in front of you, etc.).

These things are useful for a better riding experience, but they still don't really prepare you for the daily commute in rush-hour traffic with half-asleep office drones and stressed mothers in minivans. Experience and common sense are the only things that will help you ...

[Louis]

Here, the only to have more than parking skills (MSF or ERC) is basically a track day. I need to shcedule one but then I also need a set a full leathers as this is required for track.

[Clint]

I think four things must be combined to make you an effective traffic motorcyclist:

Good automotive driving habits. If you're an experienced car driver you have a good feel for traffic flow and common trouble areas. You also have developed good use of your peripheral vision to help enhance situational awareness. No 16 year-old has these skills.

Basic and Experienced rider courses. I've only taken the ERC, but the maneuvers taught are a very good start to learning proper evasion and avoidance habits.

Track days and other high-speed courses. Vehicle dynamics are different at high speed, and only consciencious application of avoidance and positioning techniques can make you a safe highway rider.

A personal committment to safety. You can have all the skills in the world, but if you drink before riding, don't wear proper gear, or simply don't keep your mind on the task of riding, the rest doesn't mean much.

[PENJO]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

I think four things must be combined to make you an effective traffic motorcyclist:

Good automotive driving habits. If you're an experienced car driver you have a good feel for traffic flow and common trouble areas. You also have developed good use of your peripheral vision to help enhance situational awareness. No 16 year-old has these skills.

Basic and Experienced rider courses. I've only taken the ERC, but the maneuvers taught are a very good start to learning proper evasion and avoidance habits.

Track days and other high-speed courses. Vehicle dynamics are different at high speed, and only consciencious application of avoidance and positioning techniques can make you a safe highway rider.

A personal committment to safety. You can have all the skills in the world, but if you drink before riding, don't wear proper gear, or simply don't keep your mind on the task of riding, the rest doesn't mean much.

Hum, Did you copy this from some literature??? Very well said!
"Please a reminder, all final papers are due in APA format. You must quote your sources"

[Clint]

It's right out of the Rowdy Bible of Motorcycling. Thank you.

[PENJO]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

It's right out of the Rowdy Bible of Motorcycling. Thank you.

Ok. Seems worth reading a copy of it.

The track day idea sounds like a very good idea. It is now that i am starting to get a better grip of the R1000. I need much more practice on it.