What's wrong with Harleys?

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by geoffsimpson

Tumbleweed, I'd be curious to get your take on the other side of the equation, I believe on HD-forums. I'm sure If we look over there we'll find "What's wrong with JAP bikes" as much as I hate the term. The whole thing really blows my mind, I mean I ride with harleys, we all joke back and forth, but it's all in fun. The reason I ask you, is that I know your in that forum...so what's the deal?

There's got to me more to it than some kind of my d**k is bigger than yours thing, like owning a ferrari or vette...(please note, owning these automobiles does not directly reflect the size of your p3nis). I've never seen anything quite like it, and I've never had an HD Rider say anything like that to my face. It's easy to be a man when your hidden behind a computer, but do these guys actually think this way?

That being said, I guess are there those of us here can act the same way I suppose. Glass houses and all that right?

I don't know what Tumbleweed's answer might be, but I think you are pretty close with your thoughts that it's the same as owning any other high end item. It's an opportunity for a person of moderate income to own something that the vast majority of the population (not just riders) believe to be the top of the line. It doesnt matter that Harley's arn't the best there is, most people believe they are, because they cost more. I'm not to sure that Harley wouldn't loose sales if they lowered their prices!

As I've said before, I've had owners of custom bikes, ones that don't have a single Harley part on them, look down there noses at me on my mostly stock Road King. Told me that I needed more bling.

Now I'm not saying all HD owners are like that, I know a lot of HD owners that really love to ride, but there not the ones that get all the attention, they are to busy riding. The ones that get all the attention, and by the way, they are also the ones that are getting the deserved bad press by people on this forum, for the most part don't really know that much about bikes, don't ride much, except to show off their bike, and don't care all that much about other bikers/people. Like you said, it's easy for someone to sit behind a computer, and pretend to be something there not, but they can't fool the informed individual for long, that's why that type doesn't last long on this forum. and they go someplace where there are others like themselves, pretenders! Maybe this shouldn't be what's wrong with Harley's, maybe it should be what's wrong with pretenders!

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Ever go on a Toys-for-Tots ride? You'll learn dang quick how ugly Harleyism really is. They treat you like crap and then boast about how they're the only ones doing charity work. Well, duh! You practically ostracize everyone else! Whaddya expect?

Dang Clint, you are going to have to go for a ride with me some time, your meeting all the wrong people. I'll introduce you to some real Harley riders, not those pretenders you have been meeting.

[geoffsimpson]

Originally Posted by Rickster

I don't know what Tumbleweed's answer might be, but I think you are pretty close with your thoughts that it's the same as owning any other high end item. It's an opportunity for a person of moderate income to own something that the vast majority of the population (not just riders) believe to be the top of the line. It doesnt matter that Harley's arn't the best there is, most people believe they are, because they cost more. I'm not to sure that Harley wouldn't loose sales if they lowered their prices!

As I've said before, I've had owners of custom bikes, ones that don't have a single Harley part on them, look down there noses at me on my mostly stock Road King. Told me that I needed more bling.

Now I'm not saying all HD owners are like that, I know a lot of HD owners that really love to ride, but there not the ones that get all the attention, they are to busy riding. The ones that get all the attention, and by the way, they are also the ones that are getting the deserved bad press by people on this forum, for the most part don't really know that much about bikes, don't ride much, except to show off their bike, and don't care all that much about other bikers/people. Like you said, it's easy for someone to sit behind a computer, and pretend to be something there not, but they can't fool the informed individual for long, that's why that type doesn't last long on this forum. and they go someplace where there are others like themselves, pretenders! Maybe this shouldn't be what's wrong with Harley's, maybe it should be what's wrong with pretenders!

Great point man, nicely put.

[geoffsimpson]

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Ever go on a Toys-for-Tots ride? You'll learn dang quick how ugly Harleyism really is. They treat you like crap and then boast about how they're the only ones doing charity work. Well, duh! You practically ostracize everyone else! Whaddya expect?

Hey I've had the exact same experience CLint...I've also had the same experience with guys on sport and supersport bikes...@ssholes are everywhere I guess.

I'm fine with the sport bike crowd copping attitude because I expect it. And for the most part (not in all cases, cool your jets) they're younger and once off the bike won't say a single word to you about your bike, let alone look you in the eye and say it. But I don't like gettin' the attitude from HD riders...I think for me, the reason behind that, is because I could easily afford one, but didn't buy it because it didn't make any sense to me...it ain't my style....but damn, that attidude you get for being on a metric bike just kills me everytime. Oh well...that's that. I'll ride with anybody, don't care...and if yer broke on the side of the road, I'll help you pull wrenches or hang with you until help comes.

Ride on brutherz and sisterz

[Harsh Winters]

Originally Posted by geoffsimpson

Oh well...that's that. I'll ride with anybody, don't care...and if yer broke on the side of the road, I'll help you pull wrenches or hang with you until help comes.

That is my attitude exactly. I just want to ride, and I want to ride something I am happy with. I don't care what you ride, as long as you are happy with it.
I have had my C50T for about 2 months now and have put 3500 miles on it. I ride that damn thing everywhere and enjoying myself.

[Smurf]

I don't have a Harley because:

1. Can't afford the thing
2. Can't pick it up if it falls on me
3. Don't want oil spots in my garage
4. Not a staus symbol kinda guy
5. It's my money, I earned it, I want more bang for my buck and I can't get that with Harley.

smurf steps down off his soap box and returns to his corner.

[650Doug]

Don't shoot the messenger. And I'm in no way, shape, or form affiliated with this site. I simply stumbled across it as I cruised through the Web:

Harleys Suck. The Ultimate in American Irony

[MOTOHOLIC!]

Originally Posted by Smurf

I don't have a Harley because:

1. Can't afford the thing
2. Can't pick it up if it falls on me
3. Don't want oil spots in my garage
4. Not a staus symbol kinda guy
5. It's my money, I earned it, I want more bang for my buck and I can't get that with Harley.

smurf steps down off his soap box and returns to his corner.

You're soap box must be awful low so that you can climb up on it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the bike you love. Some guys may worship Harleys and die a 100% Harley fan...so? They probably look at the people who are the exact opposite as know-nothing fools. I mean, it's the bike you love, not the bike people want you to love.

[cman95]

I am new to this forum and have rode HD's for 30@ years. Now on my fifth HD. I have no problems with what people ride. Two wheels is two wheels. In my younger days I was way biased but age has changed that. I still love my harleys but the reason I found this forum was because I am hunting info on BMW R1220RT's. Yes in the somewhat near future I am going to purchase one. But I will still keep my baby. Yes I got the tattoo's, long hair and I am sure the BMW crowd will talk about me BUT.....I am living my life for me not them. Whatever you guys ride just remember...BE SAFE.

[dcstrng]

• Can't afford the thing – Most overall expensive bike I’ve ever owned was a metric
• Can't pick it up if it falls on me – Okay an Ultra is hefty, about the same as my Nomad
Don't want oil spots in my garage – Leaks, Kawasaki; Harley, dry as a bone…
• Not a status symbol kinda guy – ditto
• It's my money, I earned it, I want more bang for my buck and I can't get that with Harley… -- agree with the first, as for the second… Hmmm… ask one who rides one (regularly); in any case have never paid more than $10K for a scoot in my life…

I commute 700-800 miles a week… my metric cruisers eventually couldn’t keep up the pace… disappointed, but despite metric lore to the contrary I ended up using the Harley for everyday once again – cuz that’s all I had… all those stories you hear about Harleys and heat, Harleys and oil, Harleys and cost… all I can say is, metric liquid cooled is nice at 85-degrees, abysmal at 95 and unbearable at 100; my metric has leaked more oil than all the Harleys I’ve ridden put together… cost, well that’s a perspective… Tire wear almost the same, oil use (not counting leaks) about the same, miles per gallon – Harley about 25% better (not a joke nearly 50mpg over the past 15K commuting miles).

That said, there is no perfect bike; metric, Harley or otherwise – they all have strong points, weak points and things that frustrate… My Harley runs through a speedo-cable about every 15K miles – have no clue why, it just does… but the clutch is unbelievably strong – will tolerate 15-25 minutes of half-clutch, paddle-footing where my metrics would have given up the ghost long before… my Evo engined Ultra is nimble compared to my metric, and gets far better fuel mileage… and even after all these miles astonishes me in the way it will shrug off heat… last night it was over 100 going home (about 102-103 I think, in 30 miles of stop and go…) and nary a ping – okay, I had fudged and topped off with 89 octane, rather than its usual 87 octane, but hey…

If one argues rider/bike-image and wannabees, well yer on yer own… there are buckets of wannabees riding all sorts of scoots – truth be known, the most honest riders are probably librarians riding mopeds to work… Harley probably has far more than its fair share or wannabees and I get tired of waving to spit and polish showmen on their persona machines, who somehow think we’re now brothers… except when they get close and see dust on my scoot – heck, I live on a dirt road and spend almost four hours a day in the saddle, of course there is dirt on my scoot… but there ain’t any cobwebs…

Ridin’ is about ridin’, not about wondering what the other guy is ridin’ and as far as I can determine riding has never increased my testosterone level one iota – goodness knows at my age, I’d gladly accept the enhancement…

[CruisingRam]

I have noticed lately that the H-D crowd has calmed down a bit over the last couple years regarding the "get a real bike" comments and such. The most stupid comments I have heard have actually come from poeple that don't even have a bike LOL

I might own one if the price was right.

That being said- I am hoping the new Buell 1125R kicks some serious butt!

[hammersfan]

Originally Posted by Jip

I'd like someone to prove this two for one argument, I hear it all the time but I don't see it. Lets compare apples to apples, the C/M50 should be compared to a sportster and the 90s with a Dyna or softail.

Here in Canada a Dyna wide glide goes for around $17,000, a Kawaski 1600 lists for $15,500. Hardly twice the price difference there. So you pay a couple of grand more for similar style and displacement Harley which may well be worth the difference.

[Kodatech]

Damn this thread IS like a cockroach. Good post hammersfan, the HD is not as expensive as everyone thinks, IF you get a base model. The starting price of the HD is somewhat reasonable. But people can quickly double the price of the bike with HD accessories and chrome that IS way overpriced, but the bikes themselves arent too hatefully priced, I have been on a few harleys, and MANY MANY other bikes, the reason I dont own a harley, is that they dont make anything that suits my style of riding or that has the power I want. (including buell) But if I was in the market for a cruiser, I wouldn't count out a Night Train.


Oh by the way...here is the poser that everyone talks about.

UnCut Video - Now Playing "Bad Boy Brad Gets a New Bike"

[CruisingRam]

Originally Posted by hammersfan

Here in Canada a Dyna wide glide goes for around $17,000, a Kawaski 1600 lists for $15,500. Hardly twice the price difference there. So you pay a couple of grand more for similar style and displacement Harley which may well be worth the difference.

That may be true- but the entire "cruiser" market is really just H-D wannabees- clones of the same "I need to buy some whoop ass" or yuppies trying to catch that "easy rider rebel" feel- you know, after they leave the board meeting

An ST1300 Honda is more bike than any harley on the planet- period. It goes like stink, handles like it is on rails, gets 50mpg, and is as comfy as a barco-lounger.

The new Concours- same thing.

The entire V-twin thing is this retro-movement.

I wouldn't buy ANY cruiser except to turn a buck. Which is kinda wierd when 75% of my business is building choppers, cruisers and full baggers.

I have to be thankful to the whole "boutique easy rider in a doo-rag" movement though, without it, I would not have a business. That created the bike boom- and without it, there would not be a custom market for me to have.

I see that H-D is starting to think the boutique boom may come to an end with the baby boomers, or at least taper off thier sales- or, as the Motley Fool once said "How long will the Hell's Yuppies keep H-D afloat"?

So- now, you see a rotax motor in the new 1125R Buell. NOT a 45* Vtwin, but a 72* 140hp screamer!

Also when prices are compared- look at the V-rod- a horribly, horribly slow and heavy "power cruiser". A 1985 V65 Magna power cruiser embarrases it horribly. Can toy with the V-rod at will- modded or not! A really, really good magna goes about 4500 max.

[texrider]

Originally Posted by CruisingRam

That may be true- but the entire "cruiser" market is really just H-D wannabees- clones of the same "I need to buy some whoop ass" or yuppies trying to catch that "easy rider rebel" feel- you know, after they leave the board meeting

As opposed to "Real Bikers" like yourself, perhaps?

[dcstrng]

Well, to each his own… I’ve looked long and hard at Connies, past and present – generally trusty scoots and wonderful performance that much is for sure… however, despite the more upright riding position, am still fearful of how my geriatric knees would react…

That said; never been real sure what a “cruiser” was, mostly they look like just regular ol’ scoots we had years ago – the term “cruiser” must be something Madison Avenue, Japan and the current crop of custom-shop vultures dreamed up to bilk naïve RUBs, I think… But, I’m sure they’re just a passing fad with me -- whether metric, Limey or Milwaukee have only been riding twins of one flavor or another for about four decades (never owned, borrowed or ridden anything with more, or less, than two cylinders as far as I can remember…), so I’m sure I’ll eventually see the light and get one of those crotch-rocket, screamin’-memee squidly thingamabobs…

But I do have to agree with finding the "boutique easy rider in a doo-rag" movement rather hilarious… what’s with that anyway… On the other hand, although I am not remotely enamored with the V-Rod, with a modest message it’ll smoke a bunch of unsuspecting scoots – not sure I’d go with the V65 (nothing wrong with `em, just not my type of scoot…) although I have a long-time riding buddy who has owned several and still swears by `em, but I did think very seriously about a V-Max some years back…

But this whole line of thought doesn’t really address what the heavy twins (or cruisers, if that is the synonymous noun in the contemporary lexicon) are about… they’re not about rippling the asphalt at the stop-light, adolescently smoking the tire in the parking lot grand prix, or strafing the Dragon on Sunday afternoon (although, some of those doo-rag types attempt it every so often). Heavy twins are about running up through the gears and not shifting again until you stop for gas in the next state… they’re about torqueing up long sweepers in the Allegheny’s, one-arming in top gear with a bike-load of junk that would swamp lesser bikes – letting the Vance and Hines baritones resonate out where the deer and antelope play -- and doing that for, say, a thousand miles a day, sleep in the saddle and go again…

I’ve ridden halfway across the continent many times in recent years and the bikes I see are predictable… squids (except for those strafing the beltway’s near major metro areas) are off the road by sundown, Wings are tucked safely away at the Marriot by 9:00 (after a succulent meal of pheasant under glass of course), Beemers follow shortly after although a few real riders will be out all night… and after about 1:00 only earnest riders are around, there will be a smattering of marques – but mostly they are twins… any multi’s tend to be rather elderly… a trusty 1100 Wing, once an old single-cam Honda 750, non-oil-head BMWs… Harleys of several flavors, occasionally a Kawasaki Vulcan (only saw one other than the Nomad I was riding on several trips), but what they all share is a rider who loves the asphalt, probably still thinks the best paint-job is done with a rattle-can and straddles a bike with a fresh coat of road-grime…

Fresh road-grime, by the way, is the best accessory you can get fer yer scoot – and no, the kid down on the corner wielding that fancy air-brush can’t put it on fer ya, ya gotta do it yerself… air-brushes are fer t-shirts…

[Clint]

Great post, Larry. I'm not sure why it's impressive (or even productive) to be out riding in the wee hours, though. Chances are, that same grimy old twin will be resting in the gutter until almost noon, while the Beemer and the 'Wing will be on the road by 8. Y'know, as long as we're generalizing.

[dcstrng]

I much prefer to ride through the night, but there surely is nothing impressive about it unless one enjoys it – there ain't anyone up at that hour to be impressed… took a few years to get my light setup so I could do it with safety, and that was the key – along with the usual stuff one does to make a bike suitable for more serious travel… I find that the night-owls do seem to have more in common rider on rider, even if their bikes are all types… Very few squids, RUBs, poseurs, etc., etc., after midnight… that said, I really don’t think it is for most riders and that doesn’t mean other folks couldn’t do it – most just prefer not to… Couples riding two up usually have had it by the end of daylight – or at least that’s been my experience the few times I’ve attempted it… clearly scenery isn’t a whole lot to brag about at night, and although I’ve done the Dragon at night, trying to set land-speed-records with spotlight illumination is insanely foolish, so I’m not advocating it, just saying I have a preference for it…

Recently (and regrettably) my jay-oh-bee has kept me off the long-pavement except for once or twice a year, but when I do get the chance, I usually nap until about 10:00 then hit the road… When my wife and I were dating a few years back, about every 4-6 weeks I’d take off after work on Thursday, ride through, cat-nap in the saddle here and there and get into the Dakotas about midnight on Friday… have a Saturday night date, leave about noon on Sunday and be back at work Tuesday – 3300-3700 miles depending on the route… This is where a properly set up big-twin cruiser comes into its own… suitably set up, I arrive better rested than if I took a cage and have a whole lot more fun… On a bike trip I don’t think I’ve ever stayed in a hotel, but once – two-up with a previous pillion… For me the whole point is to see asphalt, not HBO in the motel… and that was they way I preferred when my “touring bike” was a P11 Norton (much younger bones…)

As for Wings on the road by 8:00… nothing wrong with that… just different styles.. but the only big-twin I ever left in a gutter was an EL my kid brother and I rode years ago – sure wish I had the rascal back now – hind-sight being 20/20…

[Clint]

Sounds like that works well for you. Me? I have a much more strict sleep schedule. I'd be dangerously drowsy doing that. I understand the appeal, though. Years ago my buddy and I would ride around the county after midnight. Some interesting encounters with fog back then.

[CruisingRam]

Originally Posted by texrider

As opposed to "Real Bikers" like yourself, perhaps?

No no, I don't want you to take it that way- I am speaking more to the group that has 125 miles total on a new bike in 2 years and tries to sell it for more than they paid for it, believing it was an "investment".

Folks that ride, ride thier bikes alot- but there is a large population of the poeple that (mistakenly) find the biggest "hog" that they can, hoping to rekindle some mid-life fantasy.

The Sport bike "starbucks" rider is a similar thing.

One area you don't find too much is that with old, second hand bikes with poeple that commute on them.

There is a large segment of H-D buyers- NOT all buyers now, but "re-entry" riders or never have ridden but got the disposable income now to buy a fatboy thang.

S'kay, I know a parent that bought thier 19 year old 5' tall daughter that had never been on two wheels in her life a brand new Gixxer 1000.

Her feet couldn't even touch the ground on it.

She crashed it riding into thier garage.