Just how powerful is that bike? - Motorcycle-Journal Forums

St0nkingByte · 02-12-2006, 01:44 PM

A vague acquitance of my was pontificating upon my recent motorcycle purchase. Now I don't care much about brand identity or using my checkbook as an extension of my nether regions but I think this guy somehow felt he had to prove his Harley was just as good as my new BMW. Why we have to make this comparison I'm not sure because frankly Harley doesn't make a sport tourer so what's to compare?

Anyway he was suggesting that his FLXBSWTFBBQ or whatever they call it had as much horsepower as my R1200RT. So this morning I had a few minutes of time on my hands and I went to the Harley site to see how the specs compare. However on the Harley site I found something interesting. None of their bike specs seem to mention horsepower. Example:

http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MO...ble=powertrain

They all list torque but none of the ones I've looked at mention horsepower. Now why is that? Now I'm thinking hey this is pretty good stuff, Harley doesn't list horsepower, what do they have to hide? But then I look at other sites, Suzuki, Honda, etc. They're not listing horsepower either. Darn.

So to get back to my insecure HD rider... Where can one find the HP output of the various HD's? How do they compare? I know on the Suzuki cruiser the general rule of thumb is that the engines put out about as much horsepower as they displace in cubic inches. The venerable Suzuki 800cc (48ci) V-twin , for example, puts out 47-50 HP depending on tuning/jetting.

tlwisner · 02-12-2006, 01:56 PM

According to MCN's 2006 Performance Index, your '05 R1200ST puts out 94.8 rear wheel horsepower and 74.6 foot pounds of torque. An FLHRC Road King puts out 62.3 rear wheel horsepower and 76.5 foot pounds of torque. (HP numbers from MCN's Dyno tests) The VZ800 Marauder tested at 39.7 rear wheel horsepower

Like you said, you are comparing apples and oranges - but your buddy is quite wrong.

**Clint** · 02-12-2006, 02:53 PM

Mmm-hmm. There's a reason Harley doesn't mention horsepower. With a rev range as short as they have, torque doesn't account for much, either. Your Beemer likely has 80% of it's torque available from 3-7000 rpm. A Harley likely has 80% for only 2-4000.

St0nkingByte · 02-12-2006, 03:56 PM

Actually the boxer twin makes the most power over 6k which is up where the cruiser types almost never go

That MCN index is cool...

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/JAN06Pindx1.pdf
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/JAN06Pindx2.pdf
etc...

I'm keeping my mouth shut around the leather fringe crowd. Just smile and nod, smile and nod.

**Clint** · 02-12-2006, 07:17 PM

Yeah, I wasn't sure. I've never been a BMW fan (I'm not rich enough).

tlwisner · 02-12-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Mmm-hmm. There's a reason Harley doesn't mention horsepower. With a rev range as short as they have, torque doesn't account for much, either. Your Beemer likely has 80% of it's torque available from 3-7000 rpm. A Harley likely has 80% for only 2-4000.

According to MCN's dyno testing in the Nov. 2005 issue, the '06 Dyna Wide Glide FXWGI makes a peak of 70 foot pounds of torque at about 2900 rpm. It makes above 60 foot pounds of torque from about 1600 rpm to 5000 rpm - redlining about 5500 rpm. The torque is there throughout the powerband.

The base price on that '05 R1200RT is $17,900 - but nobody ever bought a BMW or an H-D because they were inexpensive. If you like spending money, the H-D can put out a lot more power than the stock model does.

I do have my doubts that H-D and BMW compete too much for customers.

**Clint** · 02-12-2006, 09:10 PM

Ok, the torque band is wider than I though... a whopping 3500 rpm. Still a far cry from high-performance.

Rickster · 02-12-2006, 10:51 PM

My last Harley, a 1991 FLHS, cost me $3500 ($5,000 if done today) to get the HP up to 87 at the wheel. To put that into perspective, I could take that same $5,000, and buy a brand new GS 500F. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not in to bashing Harleys, but, I just can't justify spending $15,000 for a bike, than spending another $5,000 on the motor, just so I can say that I can almost keep up with some of the metric 500cc bikes. Air cooled Harleys are not performance bikes. Tell your acquitance to put his money where his mouth is, find a safe place, and race him.

viper94bite · 02-13-2006, 10:20 AM

ROTFL. I'm sorry I tried not to laugh when I read that. But "not a chance" was the first thing that came to my head.

MagnumForce · 02-13-2006, 10:43 AM

I second Rickster's suggestion. If your acquaintance feels so confident, race your bikes out at Pinks. Looks like you could very well be a proud owner of the HD FLXLOSEREFFINBIKE, then sell it on ebay for three times the value (after plastering all sorts of live to ride crap on it).

St0nkingByte · 02-13-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZridr1

I second Rickster's suggestion. If your acquaintance feels so confident, race your bikes out at Pinks. Looks like you could very well be a proud owner of the HD FLXLOSEREFFINBIKE, then sell it on ebay for three times the value (after plastering all sorts of live to ride crap on it).

I'll keep this in mind the two sunny days in July that the bike in question is actually ridden.

MagnumForce · 02-13-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St0nkingByte

I'll keep this in mind the two sunny days in July that the bike in question is actually ridden.

The phrase "Your bike is so fast it makes the Harley look like it's standing still" takes both a figurative and literal meaning.

tlwisner · 02-13-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RowdyRed94

Ok, the torque band is wider than I though... a whopping 3500 rpm. Still a far cry from high-performance.

It's a cruiser - it's not billed as a performance bike or a sport bike. I'm guessing your B12 might be a little faster, but the H-D is way better for riding while drunk (with your chaps, of course) with a skank-ho on the back.

It's lower seat means you don't have as far to fall - and you can't go as fast so it hurts less when you crash. See? The H-D is better!

S2Design · 02-13-2006, 01:41 PM

Well in that case, I need one.

sunny · 02-13-2006, 01:43 PM

The Guy and i went to a harley place this weekend just to look, (and to basically show him why a foreign bike is in his future and not a harley).

so one of the salesmen comes by and i just ask him about the flxwhatever in front of us. how much horsepower? he says "about 60, but it's not intended to be a predominately horsepower bike, it is a torque bike".
i ask about the v-rod(only harley i'd want, btw). "it's got 115 hp but doesn't have the torque", he says.

my savage, when stock, had 32-35 horses. and i didn't have to pay 200 bucks a month for 72 months to get it.(that's the cost of a sportster, with 40 hp).

the 72 month loan is what swayed The Guy away from harley.

MagnumForce · 02-13-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlwisner

It's a cruiser - it's not billed as a performance bike or a sport bike.

Try telling that to the guy who rides only twice a year.

Rickster · 02-13-2006, 03:06 PM

Like I said, I don't want to Harley bash. I have a lot of friends that ride them, and for the most part, the only time any of them have any problems, is when they start tinkering with them. The problem I have is with some, "emphases on some" of the JERKS that buy them. Somehow these A$$ holes think that because there bike cost more than mine it's better, and if that's not bad enough, they also think that becaus they bought a Harley they are better than me! There is a small percentage of Harley riders out there that refuse to ride in a group with anything but other Harleys. I've found that there is two reasons for that, first, they can't keep up, and second they don't want to see the proof first hand that they paid more, but they didn't get more.

MagnumForce · 02-13-2006, 03:12 PM

No Harley bashing here, friend. Just banter.

I should remind folks that it wasn't too long ago that I rode a Sportster.

**inspiron** · 02-13-2006, 03:21 PM

Just a reminder ...

"Horsepower" can be calculated if you have the torque (in ft-lbs) and the rpms.

HP = (torque [in ft-pounds] * RPM) / 5250

http://www.largiader.com/articles/torque.html

MagnumForce · 02-13-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inspiron

Just a reminder ...

"Horsepower" can be calculated if you have the torque (in ft-lbs) and the rpms.

HP = (torque [in ft-pounds] * RPM) / 5250

So, using the formula above, the HD Road King that St0nk posted a link to would calculate to 57.3 HP? Makes sense to me.

02-12-2006, 01:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
St0nkingByte Sprocket Pilot Joined: Nov 2004 Bike: 2005 BMW R1200RT Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 893	Just how powerful is that bike? A vague acquitance of my was pontificating upon my recent motorcycle purchase. Now I don't care much about brand identity or using my checkbook as an extension of my nether regions but I think this guy somehow felt he had to prove his Harley was just as good as my new BMW. Why we have to make this comparison I'm not sure because frankly Harley doesn't make a sport tourer so what's to compare? Anyway he was suggesting that his FLXBSWTFBBQ or whatever they call it had as much horsepower as my R1200RT. So this morning I had a few minutes of time on my hands and I went to the Harley site to see how the specs compare. However on the Harley site I found something interesting. None of their bike specs seem to mention horsepower. Example: http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MO...ble=powertrain They all list torque but none of the ones I've looked at mention horsepower. Now why is that? Now I'm thinking hey this is pretty good stuff, Harley doesn't list horsepower, what do they have to hide? But then I look at other sites, Suzuki, Honda, etc. They're not listing horsepower either. Darn. So to get back to my insecure HD rider... Where can one find the HP output of the various HD's? How do they compare? I know on the Suzuki cruiser the general rule of thumb is that the engines put out about as much horsepower as they displace in cubic inches. The venerable Suzuki 800cc (48ci) V-twin , for example, puts out 47-50 HP depending on tuning/jetting. __________________

02-12-2006, 01:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
tlwisner Throttle Jockey Joined: Apr 2004 Bike: '05 Boulevard C50 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 3,208	According to MCN's 2006 Performance Index, your '05 R1200ST puts out 94.8 rear wheel horsepower and 74.6 foot pounds of torque. An FLHRC Road King puts out 62.3 rear wheel horsepower and 76.5 foot pounds of torque. (HP numbers from MCN's Dyno tests) The VZ800 Marauder tested at 39.7 rear wheel horsepower Like you said, you are comparing apples and oranges - but your buddy is quite wrong. __________________ Tim Wisner AMA, SCRC Happiness is something we create

02-12-2006, 03:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
St0nkingByte Sprocket Pilot Joined: Nov 2004 Bike: 2005 BMW R1200RT Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 893	Actually the boxer twin makes the most power over 6k which is up where the cruiser types almost never go That MCN index is cool... http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/JAN06Pindx1.pdf http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/JAN06Pindx2.pdf etc... I'm keeping my mouth shut around the leather fringe crowd. Just smile and nod, smile and nod. __________________

02-13-2006, 10:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
viper94bite Sit speling cheker Joined: Jan 2005 Bike: 2008 Yamaha FZ6 Location: omaha, ne Posts: 1,792	ROTFL. I'm sorry I tried not to laugh when I read that. But "not a chance" was the first thing that came to my head. __________________ *yippee*

02-13-2006, 10:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
MagnumForce Throttle Jockey Joined: May 2005 Bike: 05 M50, 06 CBR600F4i Location: Sitting on the can... duh! Posts: 3,160	I second Rickster's suggestion. If your acquaintance feels so confident, race your bikes out at Pinks. Looks like you could very well be a proud owner of the HD FLXLOSEREFFINBIKE, then sell it on ebay for three times the value (after plastering all sorts of live to ride crap on it). __________________ "I love the smell of toner in the morning… it's the smell of victory!" MAJ M, Staff Officer

02-12-2006, 10:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
Rickster Throttle Jockey Joined: Oct 2005 Location: St Paul Mn Posts: 3,136	My last Harley, a 1991 FLHS, cost me $3500 ($5,000 if done today) to get the HP up to 87 at the wheel. To put that into perspective, I could take that same $5,000, and buy a brand new GS 500F. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not in to bashing Harleys, but, I just can't justify spending $15,000 for a bike, than spending another $5,000 on the motor, just so I can say that I can almost keep up with some of the metric 500cc bikes. Air cooled Harleys are not performance bikes. Tell your acquitance to put his money where his mouth is, find a safe place, and race him.

02-13-2006, 01:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
S2Design Member Investigator Joined: Oct 2005 Bike: '03 Santa Cruz Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,022	Well in that case, I need one. __________________ "In prosperity our friends know us; in adversity we know our friends." John Churton Collins

02-13-2006, 01:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
sunny Leaned over, knee down Joined: Nov 2004 Bike: '97 suzuki savage, '90 honda shadow, '75 kh400, and a broom Location: fort worthless Posts: 4,678	The Guy and i went to a harley place this weekend just to look, (and to basically show him why a foreign bike is in his future and not a harley). so one of the salesmen comes by and i just ask him about the flxwhatever in front of us. how much horsepower? he says "about 60, but it's not intended to be a predominately horsepower bike, it is a torque bike". i ask about the v-rod(only harley i'd want, btw). "it's got 115 hp but doesn't have the torque", he says. my savage, when stock, had 32-35 horses. and i didn't have to pay 200 bucks a month for 72 months to get it.(that's the cost of a sportster, with 40 hp). the 72 month loan is what swayed The Guy away from harley. __________________ "blah blah blah, the world revolves around me, blah blah blah, your perception of events can't possibly be valid, blah blah blah, i wasn't there but i know everything about everything, blah blah blah." - 95% of the male population. you WISH this post was brought to you by rum.

02-13-2006, 03:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
Rickster Throttle Jockey Joined: Oct 2005 Location: St Paul Mn Posts: 3,136	Like I said, I don't want to Harley bash. I have a lot of friends that ride them, and for the most part, the only time any of them have any problems, is when they start tinkering with them. The problem I have is with some, "emphases on some" of the JERKS that buy them. Somehow these A$$ holes think that because there bike cost more than mine it's better, and if that's not bad enough, they also think that becaus they bought a Harley they are better than me! There is a small percentage of Harley riders out there that refuse to ride in a group with anything but other Harleys. I've found that there is two reasons for that, first, they can't keep up, and second they don't want to see the proof first hand that they paid more, but they didn't get more.

02-13-2006, 03:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
MagnumForce Throttle Jockey Joined: May 2005 Bike: 05 M50, 06 CBR600F4i Location: Sitting on the can... duh! Posts: 3,160	No Harley bashing here, friend. Just banter. I should remind folks that it wasn't too long ago that I rode a Sportster. __________________ "I love the smell of toner in the morning… it's the smell of victory!" MAJ M, Staff Officer

02-13-2006, 03:21 PM	#19 (permalink)
inspiron Muscle Biker Joined: Jul 2004 Bike: Blue Suzuki GSX 1400 (2003) Location: Canton Basel-Land, Switzerland (47.4493, 7.76536) Posts: 12,072	Just a reminder ... "Horsepower" can be calculated if you have the torque (in ft-lbs) and the rpms. HP = (torque [in ft-pounds] * RPM) / 5250 http://www.largiader.com/articles/torque.html __________________ There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe blog: gsx1400

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