(06-06-05) Helmet Laws

[SVZuki]

Originally Posted by bat4255

Pro Helmet

Anti-Helmet Law

+4

[stevie c]

Always always always wear your lid!

[mark]

I wear a Full Helmet regardless of the law. I also have two little girls that dictate I do everything I can to come home at night.

PA's helmet law was repealed last year, while you can still get an additional 30 bucks tacked on to your speeding ticket for not wearing a seat-belt in a car....I am anti-helmet law, as there are too many law's out there to "protect" you. People should be accountable for their own actions and I would rather spend my tax dollars having the police go after real criminals. (steppin off my soap box now)

[doblerj14]

Originally Posted by bat4255

Pro Helmet

Anti-Helmet Law

+5

[drgibson]

Originally Posted by themeatmanlandry

No discussions, please. Yes, No or I Don't Care.

Yo dude! Did you actually think that no one would comment on this.

[drgibson]

Originally Posted by bat4255

Pro Helmet

Anti-Helmet Law

+6 Except for under 18yrs old.

[Trapper]

I don't want to start any more flaming, however, I need something clairified, and it is an honest question to which I am curious (I am not challenging). What instance has a law that legislates safety ever hurt society or put any strain or inconvenience on your parts? I ask this to those who answered "There are too many laws to protect you." And have you witnessed a serious crime being commited while the cops were busting a bandana wearing hog rider? Back up your arguments and I'll be happy.

[bat4255]

Originally Posted by trappercase

I don't want to start any more flaming, however, I need something clairified, and it is an honest question to which I am curious (I am not challenging). What instance has a law that legislates safety ever hurt society or put any strain or inconvenience on your parts? I ask this to those who answered "There are too many laws to protect you." And have you witnessed a serious crime being commited while the cops were busting a bandana wearing hog rider? Back up your arguments and I'll be happy.

Well I'm a private pilot, and that's put in the same box as racing motorcycles, as far as getting life insurance. If it's that dangerous, why don't we have to where helmets while piloting an airplane. I think the issue is free choice, smart or dumb, it's still a choice. Open discussion and education is a better way to go (for me)

Too many "rules" start having the smell of big brother telling us what to do.

[inspiron]

I don't think that's a valid argument. There are helmet laws in place for motorcycles because there is a high risk of head injury during in an accident.

A private pilot has many laws to follow - minimum altitude over populated areas, minimum distance from other aircraft, flight corridors through controlled airspace, etc. And for stunt pilots, there are parachute laws ... are you saying that all of these laws (intended to increase your safety and the safety of those on the ground) make no sense?

EDIT: And on top of that, it's a heck of a lot harder to get a private pilot license than it is to get a motorcycle license. Back in '87 when I did the private pilot, I had to take a written test (passed with 97%), then more than 40 hours of flight instruction (at about $40 per hour for the plane plus $$$ for the instructor), and demonstrate my abilities to an inspector in order to get my license. If they were to let every 18 year old squid get in a Cessna 152 ... there would soon be huge nets covering the city to protect the population from falling aircraft!

[bat4255]

Originally Posted by inspiron

I don't think that's a valid argument. There are helmet laws in place for motorcycles because there is a high risk of head injury during in an accident.

A private pilot has many laws to follow - minimum altitude over populated areas, minimum distance from other aircraft, flight corridors through controlled airspace, etc. And for stunt pilots, there are parachute laws ... are you saying that all of these laws (intended to increase your safety and the safety of those on the ground) make no sense?

Vehicals of all types have their specific rules to follow for safe operation, be it a Bike, Truck, Boat or Aircraft. Stunt flying is the same racing (Boats, Cars, etc.) and do require saftey gear. I'm talking about standard operating procedure.

[inspiron]

It is common sense to wear a helmet when riding ...

Sadly, common sense isn't all that common.

That's why many "personal protection" laws are passed ... to make up for the lack of common sense.

[Trapper]

What about marijuana? You are not hurting anyone but yourself when you smoke the leaf, but the government has no problem declaring all out "WAR" on the stuff. Same could be said for prostitution. I think that responsible government has a responsibility to protect its citizens from themselves, to an extent. Put it to a vote... wait we did, and although a small sample, looks like if there was a plebicite, you would all be required to don the lid.

[MagnumForce]

Voted "I don't care." I always ride with my lid + gear. I, alone, will hold myself accountable for my action or inaction. Isn't it about time people take responsibility for themselves?

[Trapper]

Originally Posted by kskruiser

Isn't it about time people take responsibility for themselves?

Looks good "on paper". Call me cynical, but that ain't gonna happen.

[MagnumForce]

Originally Posted by trappercase

Looks good "on paper". Call me cynical, but that ain't gonna happen.

I understand your cynicism. Being in the military, I have served in countries and states with different helmet laws. For example, in Kansas, riders 18 yrs and older are not required to wear helmets. However, military safety regulations dictate the use of helmets and other required safety gear regardless of duty status. My integrity compels me to use my helmet, even if there are no other military personnel within miles of me. There will come a time when I will no longer serve in uniform, but I will continue to wear a helmet simply because it's the right thing to do.

[mark]

We can go on and on about governments responsiblity to protect its citizens from themselves. Common sense is missing but "for your protection" includes much of the Patriot Act, which is a political hot-button (I am not stating my opinioin just using it as an example) ..said phrase also includes people wanting a law in PA to have to buckle dogs in.....

AND MY PRIME EXAMPLE....you have to get a building permit (by law) to change a window, light fixtures, install a new outlet (I can continue on) and then you have to PAY someone to have it inspected..per the NEWEST Uniform Building Codes in PA....I hope this helps to those who feel all these laws are necessary.

[inspiron]

Originally Posted by trappercase

What about marijuana? You are not hurting anyone but yourself when you smoke the leaf, but the government has no problem declaring all out "WAR" on the stuff. Same could be said for prostitution. I think that responsible government has a responsibility to protect its citizens from themselves, to an extent. Put it to a vote... wait we did, and although a small sample, looks like if there was a plebicite, you would all be required to don the lid.

What about the leaf? I don't smoke it, but I don't see anything wrong with people who want to smoke it (as long as they respect my rights not to have to smell like a reefer the whole night).

Here's a question for you all ... is it allowed to grow your own tabacco plants? If so, and if you know how to dry and prepare the leaves, you could roll your own cigarettes and cigars, effectively bypassing the tabacco taxes. If it's allowed to grow your own tabacco, why can't you grow your own "weed" for personal use?

What about prostitution? Why is it illegal most everywhere, except a few counties outside of Las Vegas, NV? Over here, prostitution is legal, but pimping is not. The ladies must be registered, and must pay taxes, like everyone else. And there are laws that a town must have a minimum population in order to get a permit to open a brothel. Most of the ladies advertise in the newspaper under "erotic massage"

[tlwisner]

I am pro choice. I do not have enough confidence in our various governments to want to rely on them to dictate common sense. Our government decided that alcohol would be illegal. That worked well. We spend a lot of money trying to stop people from smoking marijuana. The gov't is very concerned about violence in videogames and rap music - but blowing up countries is cool. Maybe one day the gov't will just ban motorcycles. They are proven statistically to be more dangerous than cars, so all of the "cost to society" arguments used to support helmet laws are just as easily applied to banning motorcycles, alcohol, tobacco, guns, and all other "bad" things that prevent us from living forever.

The goal here is to reduce taffic fatalities on motorcycles. There has been no comprehensive study of motorcycle accidents in the US for almost 30 years - so our goal is to improve a situation we really don't know about. Licensing standards for motorcycles are very low. New rider training does not involve riding on the street. Helmet laws are typical of the band-aid measures our gov't prefers to real solutions.

On my head, I make helmet use mandatory. On your head, I would leave that choice to you.

[Trapper]

I was waiting for you Tim . The Hurt report proved that helmets reduce head injuries due to motorcycle accidents. What has changed in 30 years?

BTW - This has been a very civil DISSCUSSION and I would take my hat off to you all, but I would blind you.

P.S. - Sorry Mark, you said no discussions. I couldn't help myself.

[tlwisner]

Originally Posted by trappercase

I was waiting for you Tim . The Hurt report proved that helmets reduce head injuries due to motorcycle accidents. What has changed in 30 years?

That is an excellent question, I am so glad you asked! Here's a link that addresses that question:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...ndix_a-81.html
What is the effect of all of these changes? We would really need another comprehensive and nationwide study to find out. This goes far beyond helmets - there are lots of things we could do to reduce crashes. I think the primary goal should be not crashing.

I will not dispute that helmets are a good thing, instead I will always wear mine - even though I am not required to do so. I will just continue to offer my opinion as listed above. The pro-choice thing. It's a philosophical argument, especially since I personally have no desire to ride bareheaded.