Bike cranks but won't start

[AZRyder]

Well, went out to go to lunch this afternoon, got on the bike, turned the key, everything seemed normal till I went to start it. At some points it would sound like it's trying, albeit kinda weakly, to turn over, others, it just sounds like the starter is spinning. Meanwhile, the instrument panel keeps resetting itself.

Tried the old put in second gear and roll backwards a little bit to see if it was the decomp cable or valve, nada, same thing. It sorta cranked and gave a little backfire but now the batteries run down and it wont do anything but reset the instrument panel when I go to try and crank it.

Not sure if it's the battery or not, going to take the battery down to the shop on the way home (buddies giving me a ride) and have them test it. It may need to be charged to be able to test it. The battery is about 2 years 3 months old so I'm thinking it may just be old and weak.

If not, any ideas? I can hear the fuel pump prime and all the lights come on.

Only other thing I can think of is something is loose as I went down a couple of dirt roads over the weekend with my wife on the back and hit some severe washboards that really hammered the heck out of the bike.

Worked fine this morning, started right up after sitting for 2 days, stopped and had a cig out in the parking lot before starting it back up and driving it into the parking garage down the street. Then at lunch, nada, kaput...

Probably end up ordering a odyssey from gman as it's going to take the shops about a week to get one in anyway. I can't believe that no suzuki shop carries the batteries in stock. That's like Autozone or Checker not carrying batteries.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by AZRyder

The battery is about 2 years 3 months old so I'm thinking it may just be old and weak.


Only other thing I can think of is something is loose

I think your instincts are right; bad battery.......unless one of the major cables is loose.....or your charging system has crapped out.

After you replace the battery, check to be sure it is charging.
How many extra electrical accessories do you have ??

[Clint]

The fact that the dash was resetting seems to indicate a weak battery. Look for a free battery test at someplace like Batteries Plus.

[AZRyder]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

I think your instincts are right; bad battery.......unless one of the major cables is loose.....or your charging system has crapped out.

After you replace the battery, check to be sure it is charging.
How many extra electrical accessories do you have ??

Nothing extra.
Just took the battery out and the positive terminal was a little oxydized. Not bad enough to lose connection I don't think but bad enough to indicate a prob with the battery.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by AZRyder

Just took the battery out and the positive terminal was a little oxydized. Not bad enough to lose connection I don't think but bad enough to indicate a prob with the battery.

Now THAT instinct is totally wrong. A little corrosion on the battery posts indicates NOTHING......except that they need to be cleaned and re-seated.

[AZRyder]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Now THAT instinct is totally wrong. A little corrosion on the battery posts indicates NOTHING......except that they need to be cleaned and re-seated.

Yeah but considering I cleaned them about a week ago. If a terminal post is oxydized, it could indicate a boiling cell in the battery which can spell trouble. Trust me, I worked with batteries for 12 years.

Anyway, Here's the update

Took the battery to the dealer, he threw it on the charger for about 45 mins and tested it and it checked out fine. Once I hooked it back to the bike, it started right up. Ran really rough for a few then smoothed out and ran normally. I'm figuring it was all the fuel pumped in by the fuel pump when I was cranking it.

One other thing I did notice was that when I was hooking it back up, I hooked the negative first, then went to hook the positive. When I did, there was a small spark. This to me looks like an open circuit or short somewhere. I'm going to have them check out the charging system tomorrow and if it's ok, I'll check for loose connections this weekend.

[AZRyder]

Went out this morning to start it, same thing, cranks, and cranks well but no start. The LED starts reading FI after a couple times of trying to crank it. I'm going to swap the fuel pump out tomorrow and see if that helps. I had swapped it out with one from an '05 that only had 2400 miles on it a few months ago because my gas gauge stopped working and it turned out to be that. Hopefully that will solve the problem, if not, I'm probably going to have to pay the stealer to fix it as I don't know a damn thing about fuel injection.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by AZRyder

If a terminal post is oxydized, it could indicate a boiling cell in the battery which can spell trouble. Trust me, I worked with batteries for 12 years.

When I did, there was a small spark. This to me looks like an open circuit or short somewhere.

It could but that is a RARE failure. Trust you ??? Maybe. I've been an Engineering Technician for 40+ years...........and I know the difference between a short and an open !!

You need to repeat that "spark test". You might indeed have some current "leak" while it is off. More likely, though, that it was just charging up some capacitors in the electronics.

AND.....if you just cleaned the terminals a week ago and they are green again.......then you failed to grease them properly when you finished the cleaning.

[AZRyder]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

It could but that is a RARE failure. Trust you ??? Maybe. I've been an Engineering Technician for 40+ years...........and I know the difference between a short and an open !!

You need to repeat that "spark test". You might indeed have some current "leak" while it is off. More likely, though, that it was just charging up some capacitors in the electronics.

AND.....if you just cleaned the terminals a week ago and they are green again.......then you failed to grease them properly when you finished the cleaning.

Yeah, but it doesn't seem to be the battery now. It cranked really strong this morning but didn't kick over. Never got an indication that it was going to start. I'm thinking it's either not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

I guess I'm going to have to take it apart this weekend, check for loose connections and see if spark is being delivered to the plugs. I'm hoping that it's not the injectors but can't figure out a way to test that. I did swap out the fuel pump a few months ago from a used bike that only had about 1600 miles or so because the fuel gauge is integrated onto the pump and mine stopped working. I'm going to swap it out with the original one and see if it makes any difference if I find out it's getting spark to the plugs.

Do you know if you can clean an injector?

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by AZRyder

Do you know if you can clean an injector?

Yes they can be cleaned. Whether or not YOU should attempt it is a different question !!

Injectors don't usually fail completely due to being "dirty" and a single dirty one won't usually keep it from starting......so, I doubt that injectors is your problem ......unless the electronics is not opening them at all.

Techron is a good injector cleaner/lube (mix with gas).

[AZRyder]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Yes they can be cleaned. Whether or not YOU should attempt it is a different question !!

Injectors don't usually fail completely due to being "dirty" and a single dirty one won't usually keep it from starting......so, I doubt that injectors is your problem ......unless the electronics is not opening them at all.

Techron is a good injector cleaner/lube (mix with gas).

That was what I was going to put in this morning if it had started. I figured that it would start even if one was clogged, probably run like crap though (like my car did).. I'm beginning to think it's a loose connection somewhere but it's kind of weird that it ran fine after I finally got it started yesterday albeit a little rough at first). Bout all I can do at this point before having the dealer look at it is some basic troubleshooting. Take the seat, tank/airbox off check wire and plug connections and whether it's getting spark. I did change the plugs about 2,000 miles ago and it did seem to run a little rougher than normal. I just got back from a 3 day 600 mile ride to higher altitudes. Washed it, rode it for about 2 miles, then it sat for a day (tuesday).

Do you think I could verify that the fuel pump is working by disconnecting the hose from the bike, putting it in a glass jar and turning it on to see if it's pumping fuel?

Damn, it's time like these I miss carbs, I could work on those.

[superdave07]

az ryder, here's what i would do, i've been working on fuel injection systems for about twenty years and this is what has to happen for everything to work properly. first of all you have to have good connections power and ground especially ground!!!! what is alarming to me by your description of attaching the positive cable and it sparked was the key in the on position? if it was the sparking isn't surprising. If you think you have a draw on the system the easiest way to test this is to use a d.v.o.m. digital volt ohm meter, disconnect the postive cable attach red lead to battery cable attach black lead to battery set the d.v.o.m. to MA milliamps setting and read display it should be a very low reading maybe one or two m.a. depending on the electrical accesories that you have installed. if this is the case things in the electrical system are ok. now back to the fuel injectors what you are going to look for here is trigger from the computer via the crank or cam sensor. Take a couple "t" pins and back probe the connector at the fuel injectors attach a test light to each of the pins (ground leg of light to one the probe to the other, crank the engine. does the light flash? if it does you have proved that the computer is recognizing the postion of the crank and camshafts and sending power and ground to trigger the injectors. check this on both of the injectors. this next step is to test the injector itself you may need to call the dealer to get this specification what you will need is the resistance value of the injectors electrical coil or winding. disconnect the injector form the harness and attach the d.v.o.m. to each of the terminals on the injector set the meter to ohms use the spec the dealer gives you as a reference. if you see this on the display "O.L" the injector itself is bad. this means an open winding. you also made note of the starter when cranking the display flashes on and off. heres what to check on that this could be your whole problem. charge the battery until you have a standing 12 volts turn the key in with the d.v.o.m. connected to the battery terminals record the drop in voltage and after fuel pump initializes did the voltage go back to your standing reading? if so crank the engine and read the d.v.o.m. it should not drop below 9.6 volts if it does your starter is bad drawing too many amps and voltage from the battery if that is the case the voltage the starter is stealing from the battery is dropping the electricity to the computer and the computer cannot provide the power nessecary to trigger the injectors or ignition. i hope this has been of some help if not my arms are really tired.

[AZRyder]

OK, here's another twist. May be coincidental. I read on another thread where someone was switching the key to the park setting then setting it to run and the bike would start. So, not thinking it would work, I did that, and it started after a couple of cranks. I had to open the throttle a little to get it to fire, but once it did, it ran like there wasn't ever a problem. Let it run for about 30 seconds, then shut it off, let it sit for about 2 hours. Went to try it again, fires right up like it never had a problem. Let it sit for about an hour, same thing.

One thing to note, the key switch is really sticky and hard to turn and pull out. I sprayed some contact cleaner in the key slot, and a ton of gunk came out. Cleaned it out, key turns a lot easier and comes out easy now and it's starting fine. I'm going to let it sit most of the day (it had sat for about 4 hours when it wouldn't start the first time) and see how it does. I'm wondering if I got bad gas. I'll still take it by the dealer and have him hook it up to the tester if it still has problems though. I'm also planning on taking the tank/airbox off and checking all of the connections and the decomp valve. I'm thinking if an injector is bad, it's bad, or clogged. Also going to put some injector cleaner in there and ride the heck out of it. We just got back from a long ride and were putting gas in there from any station we could find on the trip.

[AZRyder]

Key wasn't even in the ignition btw.

[AZRyder]

Well, started fine all day yesterday. Rode it over to the dealership that is not part of the ridenow powersports network (they're morons in the shop down the street from me). The head mechanic there seems to know his stuff and won't charge me for stuff I don't need. He checked out the charging system and it seemed ok. He can't seem to find anything wrong with it though he recommended replacing the battery as it's 2+ years old and might be having intermittant problems. The voltage was borderline when it went to crank the starter but he said that might be the starter drawing too much power off. But the voltage went back up just fine and the charging system was charging within parameters.

So, I'll have to check my finances and see if I can afford a Gman battery.

[superdave07]

it is sounding to me like your key switch is going to be your issue there was probly some corosion inside making the electrical connection where it shouldn't be, my next plan of action would be to take the key switch apart and see if the contacts are corroded if so clean them up and put dielectric grease on them and reassemble the switch.

[AZRyder]

Damned if it didn't do it again today. Rode to work just fine, went to leave, nada, just fracking cranked with nothing. After a short time, everything kept resetting itself so I took the battery home and it's on the charger. Meanwhile, I ordered a new battery from Gman industries. I'll take the battery I have up to the parking garage tomorrow morning after it's done charging and see if I can get it to start up. If it does, I'll ride it home and wait form the gman battery. If not, it's getting towed to the shop to see if they can figure it out.

I'm thinking the battery is probably shorted and will hold a surface charge for a couple of days and then not generate enough to kick it over.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by AZRyder

went to leave, nada, just fracking cranked with nothing.

Huh, what?

If it cranked over at a good speed but still didn't start, THAT was not caused by the battery.

Now.....the fact that it stopped cranking after a short period probably IS the battery going bad.

You may have more than one problem........or I don't understand "fracking cranked".

[AZRyder]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Huh, what?

If it cranked over at a good speed but still didn't start, THAT was not caused by the battery.

Now.....the fact that it stopped cranking after a short period probably IS the battery going bad.

You may have more than one problem........or I don't understand "fracking cranked".

I'm thinking so too. When I stopped it once on the way to work to get something at the store, it started up though I thought it sounded a little wheezy, if that makes sense. Kind of weak. I was thinking, yeah right, watch it not start when I leave work this afternoon. Sure enough. I'm charging the battery tonight to take up there tomorrow morning so I can get it home and strip it down and look for loose connections. It cranked fairly strong without starting for a few times, then it sounded like the starter was pushing the gear out but then everything stopped. You could hear the gear click out, then click back in when you let off the starter button and then the led display on the tank would reset itself, the fuel pump would re prime just like you just switched the key on.

I talked to a mechanic friend of mine who works mainly on VTX's and he said it sounds like a loose connection somewhere. He mentioned that on a lot of vtx's and some Suzuki's that when they attach the coils to the frame, they don't ground them properly and sometimes it can take them loosening to manifest a problem.

So, when I get it home, I'm going to strip the tank/airbox off, check the plug/coil connections as well as all the other ones that may have come loose, as well as the coils and see what I can find. I'd think though, that if it were a loose connection, that it would just die while I was riding it and hit a bump. But once it starts, it doesn't miss a beat so I'm thinking it's something in the starter circuit somewhere. The key switch seems to me to be a prime suspect as it's still hard to turn to the run position and hard to pull the key out when you turn it off..

[AZRyder]

Well, took it apart today. turns out I'm getting fuel but no spark to the plugs. Have to work from there I guess.