Motorcycle-Journal Forums  

Go Back   Motorcycle-Journal Forums > Maintenance > Mechanics Corner
Motorcycle Journal       Suzuki Bikes       Honda Bikes       Yamaha Bikes

Mechanics Corner Looking for answers to mechanical questions? Just can't get it to run right? Got a tip for increasing HP? This is your forum!


Welcome to the Motorcycle-Journal Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-07-2008, 09:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default having an engine start up trouble.

Hi,

1996 Suzuki GSF600 Bandit

This morning my bike wouldn't rev up in the 1st gear and kept sputtering when I applied throttle. However the engine revved freely when in neutral gear.
Now this evening when I tried to start it again, the bike didn't fire up. It only cranks and doesn't fire up.

Need your advice.

Thanks!


Last edited by cyrusyn; 08-08-2008 at 02:52 AM.
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Suzuki Motorcycle Info  Honda Motorcycle Pictures  Kawasaki Motorcycle Resource  Yamaha Motorcycle
Old 08-08-2008, 05:04 AM   #2 (permalink)
U.B's LoveChild
 
Aussie Steve's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Bike: 02 1200 Bandit
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 1,115
Default

Check out the safety cut out switch at the clutch and at the side stand if fitted. Long shot but it sounds like something stupid like one of those if it will rev in neutral OK.

Good luck.
__________________
Just remember you ARE entitled to my opinion!!!!
Aussie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 05:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

If the sidestand safe switch and the clutch switch are not working properly, wouldn't the engine n starter motor not crank when I press the engine start switch?
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 10:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
In The Zone
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Bike: Suzuki GZ250
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusyn View Post
If the sidestand safe switch and the clutch switch are not working properly, wouldn't the engine n starter motor not crank when I press the engine start switch?
That's probably true.
Sounds like a fuel delivery problem.....or water, etc. in the gas.
Are you SURE you have gas (look, don't assume)?
__________________
Loud pipes risk rights!
Easy Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 02:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

I do have gas. I saw it inside the fuel tank.
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 02:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
In The Zone
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Bike: Suzuki GZ250
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusyn View Post
I do have gas. I saw it inside the fuel tank.
No time for a detailed reply now.
Your situation is not much different than a hunderd (or so) others who's bike won't start.
Do a search for "start" or "won't start". There should be a TON of hits.
It sounds like a fuel problem to me but check the spark first.....since that's easiest.

Good luck.
More later if needed.

__________________
Loud pipes risk rights!
Easy Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 12:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
U.B's LoveChild
 
Aussie Steve's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Bike: 02 1200 Bandit
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 1,115
Default

Probably correct but intermittant faults can be a devil of a job to trace...and can cause all sorts of mysifying problems. Easiest thing to do to check ER's idea is to pull the plugs and see if 1: they are wet or dry. And 2: try a spark test with each plug grounded to the cylinders. This will possibly be only a symptom and not the real fault but it is a starting point. From there you can track what is causing the loss of spark or fuel delivery. One thing many are not aware of is on multi's even if it is only one pot that is not firing often the rest refuse to go too...sort of out in sympathy I guess.

Good luck and let us know what you find.
__________________
Just remember you ARE entitled to my opinion!!!!
Aussie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 05:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

Thanks a lot for your advices, guys.

I checked the spark plugs.

#1 had very very small spark, yellowish
#2,3 had bigger but yellow, white-ish sparks
#4 had white-ish blue sparks.

So I changed all four spark plugs. With new spark plugs, the sparks from the number 2 and 3 are weak while 1 and 4 are strong. All of the 4 spark plugs are producing bright yellowish sparks.

And engine cranks but doesn't fire up although I hear it coughing.

So should I check the ignition coil or CDI for 2 and 3 or move on to troubleshooting on fuel?
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 06:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
In The Zone
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Bike: Suzuki GZ250
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusyn View Post
With new spark plugs, the sparks from the number 2 and 3 are weak while 1 and 4 are strong. All of the 4 spark plugs are producing bright yellowish sparks.
Those two statements don't seem to match....to me at least.

Assuming that 2 & 3 share a coil or other components, I'd say that something is amiss there......but probably not enough to keep it from starting.

I think I'd give it a shot of ether (starting fluid). If it springs to life with that, then I'd say fuel is next.......and you can come back to the weak spark(s) later.

Or continue and fix the weak spark first. Murphy says: Which ever you choose to do next, it will probably turn out to be the wrong choice.
__________________
Loud pipes risk rights!
Easy Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 10:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
Assuming that 2 & 3 share a coil or other components, I'd say that something is amiss there......but probably not enough to keep it from starting.
Thanks!

2 n 3 comes from same coil while 1 n 4 comes from another coil.

What is this ether (starting fluid)? Will this work on a carburated engine without damaging it?
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 12:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
Official M-J Vendor
 
Blade's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: La Quinta, Ca
Posts: 608
Default

Yes, it will not hurt it just to get it started. But from your discription, almost sound like a coil is going bad or not getting enough juice.
__________________
Bill Johnson

Email: bill@billsbikesnservice.com
website: www.billsbikesnservice.com
Blade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 01:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

will ether work if my sparks are weak to ignite anything in the cylinder?
If this is a weak spark problem, ether won't burn inside the cylinder and is no use... no?

Where can I get this can of ether in San Francisco, California?


Last edited by cyrusyn; 08-13-2008 at 01:12 AM.
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 09:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
In The Zone
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Bike: Suzuki GZ250
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusyn View Post
will ether work if my sparks are weak to ignite anything in the cylinder?
If this is a weak spark problem, ether won't burn inside the cylinder and is no use... no?

Where can I get this can of ether in San Francisco, California?
When it comes to a complicated piece of equipment like an engine, nothing is easy.

Starting Fluid can be had at any auto parts store.....including probably the auto department at places like WalMart. It is HIGHLY volitile and ignites much easier than gasoline. Used improperly, it is DANGEROUS so read the directions....carefully. Have the battery fully charged before hand. NOT to be used along with jumper cables as sparks may cause vapors to ignite.

It is good stuff to aid in troubleshooting BUT because it burns easier than gas, it can mask a weak electrical system. It will sometimes fire with a weak spark when normal gas won't.

Sometimes using it to actually get the bike to fire for a few revs. will suck gas into places in the carb. that are slightly restricted and clear them out a bit. That works best if there is some carb. cleaner already mixed with the gas in the bowls.

Just went back and reviewed the posts. The way you described the original failure, it REALLY sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Have you opened the drains yet to be SURE you have gas flowing to the carb. bowls? If not, that would be my next thing to do........along with putting the petcock to RES or PRI just to be sure you have ENOUGH gas in the tank.
__________________
Loud pipes risk rights!
Easy Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 02:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
Have you opened the drains yet to be SURE you have gas flowing to the carb. bowls? If not, that would be my next thing to do........along with putting the petcock to RES or PRI just to be sure you have ENOUGH gas in the tank.
When you said drain, did you mean the petcock? If not, how do I open the drain?

Thanks so much for your advices.
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 05:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

I just tried coil swap and tried ether.
The 2 and 3 coils produced consistent yellow sparks. And with ether, the engine ran for 2-3 minutes with the choke lever fully down.

Now, I have to look into the fuel system. What do you recommand me to take a look into first?
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 10:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
U.B's LoveChild
 
Aussie Steve's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Bike: 02 1200 Bandit
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 1,115
Default

Ok one problem at a time.

To drain the float bowels there should be a small screw near a nipple at the base of each carb. You undo the screw after first fitting a short lenght of tube to the nipple and running it into a container.

Once you have fuel flowing...petcock on prime... you know the carbs are getting fuel. Also any crud build up is removed with the flowing gas....in theory anyway.

I would strongly suspect an electrical fault seeing as how you only have what appears to be weak sparks. A good ignition system will produce big fat bluish white sparks at all plugs. I would check the condition and connection of the battery and work back to the coils, HT cables, and plug caps. Check any wiring and relays in the ignition circuits.

Good luck
__________________
Just remember you ARE entitled to my opinion!!!!
Aussie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 03:26 AM   #17 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

thanks a lot for the advice.
My petcock only have on, off, and res.
Which one of those three is prime?
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 10:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
In The Zone
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Bike: Suzuki GZ250
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Steve View Post
I would strongly suspect an electrical fault seeing as how you only have what appears to be weak sparks.
Yes but you really think that is causing it not to run ?? Considering that he can get it to fire up....and apparently for more than a few seconds....with starting ether ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusyn View Post
My petcock only have on, off, and res.
Which one of those three is prime?
Oops, older bike. Use ON. Fuel should flow freely in the ON and RES positions. Does it have an inline fuel filter? If so, change it. If not, you probably want to add one after you get this problem figured out.

At this point, I think you need a complete drain and flush of the tank, lines and carb bowl. There might also be a little bowl below the petcock with a screen in it to clean. After that comes carb. cleaner in the gas.
More details later if you get that far.

When messing with the fuel lines etc., you should always start out with the petcock OFF, then remove a line, open a drain, (whatever) and then slowly turn it to ON.......so as to prevent fuel spewing all over while you take things apart. Some fuel will leak out anyway; have some rags handy and be sure you have good ventilation and NO SPARKS.

Good luck. Considering your level of experience with engines, have you considered taking it to a shop?

__________________
Loud pipes risk rights!
Easy Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 02:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Default

Easyrider,
Thanks a lot for your advice.

>Considering your level of experience with engines, have you considered taking it to a shop?
I can't afford a shop service and I think shops around San Francisco all stinks any way. I used to play with KA24E and KA24DE engines on Nissan 240sx and always wanted to play with carburators so I think I should do this myself anyway... The sight of 240sx engines or old BMW engines fitted with carburators were always wonder to me.

This bike (which was salvaged) has a history of fuel tank swap due to long storage and rust built up inside the fuel tank. So I will try cleaning the fuel system clean as you recommanded. Do you think I should use a can of Goumont fuel system clean?

>Oops, older bike. Use ON.
Bike is 96 but the people who sold me this bike changed the petcock after realizing that it was leaking.

And all this began to happen the day after my bike was knocked over. I don't know how this would play into this problem.

Last edited by cyrusyn; 08-14-2008 at 03:13 PM.
cyrusyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 08:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
In The Zone
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Bike: Suzuki GZ250
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusyn View Post
And all this began to happen the day after my bike was knocked over. I don't know how this would play into this problem.
That's not too hard to figure. Rusty tank got thumped. Some rust came loose. It is now plugging up something...in or prior to the carb.

Re-read previous post.
Can't give much more advice by remote control.
Good luck!
__________________
Loud pipes risk rights!
Easy Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine popping. Not sure where to start. Old-guy Mechanics Corner 15 04-25-2008 08:50 PM
2006 Suzuki GSX-R 600 Engine Code Trouble bustinjass17 Mechanics Corner 8 03-31-2008 11:45 AM
engine trouble 2004 rm 250 bigrickey Mechanics Corner 3 09-11-2006 06:57 AM
engine knock on cold start Blue123 Volusia/C50 Getaway 5 05-22-2006 01:46 AM
Cannot start GSX250F engine Netrat Mechanics Corner 8 06-29-2004 02:36 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:34 AM.
Blackbird Forums


Copyright 2008, Suzuki-Bikes.com
Motorcycle-Journal Forums

SEO by vBSEO ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.