2000 rm 250 oil fowling problem - Page 2 - Motorcycle-Journal Forums

punkrock114 · 05-13-2008, 08:30 PM

well you see the thing is i got the bike back it ran....and in order to get the bike back i sorta had to pay for it. yes it know it is a lil bit rediculous that it doesnt run and i think i already know that...i have a lot of time, money and headaches in this thing and trust me im not happy. it seems to be flooded from what i can see and smell so i am going to wait till my rediculously expensive plugs get here tomarrow and see if it runs. which it should. everything else on it is working like it should. if and only IF it doesnt run i might consider taking it back to these a-holes who rebuilt it. and please dont ask me why i took it there...it will only add to my aggrevation.

Aussie Steve · 05-14-2008, 07:54 PM

You stated in an earlier post that the motor seized..are you sure it was a seize...because if it was then there are two things that need to be done. 1: Take it back to the repairer and tell him what has happened. 2: Have the bore and more specifically the rings checked out. If there is a broken ring then there is your problem. I know you said the compression was good but have you rechecked it since?

As for the flooding I would set the carb and oil/fuel mix back to standard then work from there...it isn't something simple like a stuck float needle????

As you have stated a motor needs three things to work. 1: Fuel. 2: Air. 3: A spark. compression has little to do with it....any motor will run with low compression albeit badly.

If everything is as you say re the carb/engine I would now look at the ignition...especially the plug cap, HT cable, and coil in that order. A spark plug may spark outside a cylinder and appear to be good but under compression that spark may disappear alltogether. This can be caused by other factors than the plug itself as I'm sure you know.

Good luck

punkrock114 · 05-15-2008, 12:16 PM

ok i got my new plugs and after i let it sit for a day and dry up it fired right up. now a day later after i rode it, it ran great;like a top, now its doing the same thing again. after i rode it i shut the gas off to make sure it wouldnt flood up again. this morning when i went out to try to start it...nothing. brand new plug. i pulled it out and it was soaked. it keeps flooding up on me when i try to start it if its not hot. how can this be. i will go over everything i did so far...motor has just been rebuilt, i installed boysen rad valves, jetted the main down from 158 stock, to 155. the pilot is still stock 42 and the needle clip in in the 2nd position now. the pilot air screw is 1 and 3/4 turns out. new air filter and plugs. fuel/oil is at 40:1 and the carb is clean as a whistle. i just dont understand why it floods up on me after letting it sit for a little while. PLEASE help.....

KD57 · 05-15-2008, 12:43 PM

Have you checked the fuel valve needle and the float? Seems it's not shutting off the fuel when the bowl gets full. Not leaking enough to be an issue running, but allowing it to sit overnight lets what fuel you have in the line drain to the bowl, thus overfilling it, then it drains into the crankcase. It should run out the overflow hose, but it always doesn't. Try this: get it running, turn the gas off, run it dry. Let it set over night, turn gas back on, give it time to fill the bowl, and see if it will start. If it does, this is your problem. Replace the fuel valve needle, (make sure the seat is clean)and adjust the float to specs.

Your jetting is fine, make sure the needle is in 2nd clip from the TOP. You might have to go to a 40 slow jet to really clean up the bottom, especially since you put the Boyesen's in, and if you have a pipe on it.

punkrock114 · 05-15-2008, 12:47 PM

ok fuel valve needle...thats the one on the float itself correct?

punkrock114 · 05-15-2008, 12:54 PM

and what a coisidence...i just called the guy who rebuilt it to see if he knew anything...and he said check that. he also said he didnt go over the carb when he had it there. can you believe this guy! he also said it might be weak spark at start up but im inclined to think different seeing how when i put a new plug in it fires.

punkrock114 · 05-15-2008, 01:11 PM

and is there an adlustment on this float...doesnt appear soo

KD57 · 05-15-2008, 02:52 PM

It's a small needle shaped part that is attached to the float by usually a pin or small spring looking thing. As the bowl fills w/ gas, the float rises, then at a certain point the valve presses up against it's seat and stops the flow. As you run it, gas level drops, then more gas is let in thru the valve and the process starts all over. The level of the float would be in the manual, but the adjustmentis correct when the gas level doesn't drop too far to starve the motor, but not too high as to flood it. Have the mechanic take a look at it.
Replacing the needle valve is easy, setting float height is more complicated.

KD57 · 05-15-2008, 02:56 PM

And don't buy any more 35.00 plugs. Use BR9EG or BR9EV, both are small diameter electrodes, the BR9ES is the standard old plug, but also works.

Easy Rider · 05-15-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD57

Try this: get it running, turn the gas off, run it dry. Let it set over night, turn gas back on, give it time to fill the bowl, and see if it will start. If it does, this is your problem.

Now you are getting somewhere.......if you actually TAKE this excellent advice. I remember knowing several people over the years who were too cheap and/or lazy to fix that condition and so would have to do that EVERY TIME they shut the bike off. Pain in the butt, especially when they would forget and then it wouldn't start the next day !!!

Aussie Steve · 05-15-2008, 07:07 PM

Sorry to be a "I told you so" but I think I mentioned the float needle about 8 posts ago. If it is this the float should have a tang on it that can be bent up or down...where the needle actually fits. If the whole thing is plastic...and quite a few are... then you are correct it is not adjustable.

In this case you will have to fit a new needle and or float. If this does not cure the problem then the float needle valve will have to be replaced. Most are unable to be removed but a trick I used years ago was gently tap the valve out a little to increase the pressure on it from the needle.

Now this was on a vintage carb with no possibility of replacement. This carb was also a lot more robustly built than many newer ones so could take this kind of treatment. Be well advised that to try this on a newer one made from thinner material could damage the whole thing beyond repair.

Good luck

punkrock114 · 05-15-2008, 08:13 PM

ok i really appreciate all the advice. i got it running, with a lil starting fluid (prolly not the best alternative) but i got it going. once it got going it runs awesome. took it for a ride...blasted a bunch of trails like a banshee..didnt wanna load it up..lol but ne who i played around a lil bit with the gas off to burn it up and then pulled it on the truck. once on it started to rev very high and shut off...is this what happens when it gets starved for fuel???? after it shut off i pulled the line off and drained the rest of the fuel out of the line. after i got it back here i pulled a screw in the bowl to see if any gas was left in there and there isnt. so we will see if it fires tomarrow. for one im sick of using starting fluid, not good for it, and two my leg is getting swollen from this kick start nailin me in the back of the knee. but you said a BR9EG or EV will work in place of this plug? same heat range? thanks guys

punkrock114 · 05-15-2008, 08:17 PM

and what is this tang you are refering to? is it the lil metal piece that sticks out where the valve hooks to?

punkrock114 · 05-16-2008, 08:39 PM

well good new guys last night after riding it and shutting the gas off and running it dry, i just went out and tried what you said. i turned the gas on let it fill the float bowl and choked it and after a few kicks it fired right up. i definitly need a needle valve and seat. so i ordered one up. only cost me about as much as one of my plugs so i cant complain there. but i really REALLY thank you guys for the advice in getting this problem sorted out...it saved me a whole hell of alot of money over taking it to the dealership or should i say stealership.

Aussie Steve · 05-17-2008, 05:10 AM

The tang is a small metal doobie thingy...technical term... that actually does the pressing against the needle. As you move this one way or the other the float height changes ergo the float level does too. In your case I would suspect the needle has a grove worn into the viton tip causing the fuel to continue flowing when you shut the engine off. As for the engine winding up as it starves of fuel yes it is normal for this to happen..the fuel is getting leaner.

Is your fuel valve vacuum operated or do you have to switch it on and off. Reason I'm asking is if fuel is still flowing in the off position then you have a leaking valve.

punkrock114 · 05-17-2008, 08:35 AM

no vacuum in that carb. its just a standard Keihn 38mm flat slide carb. and you said the owners manual will have the float hieght in it? or can i get it from the dealer? also the guy i talked to at the dealer said there shouldnt be much adlustment in that float. he said the tang isnt meant to be bent that much

Aussie Steve · 05-17-2008, 07:52 PM

The point is that the standard float height is not shutting the gas off because of wear on the needle tip. As a quick fix you can bend the tang to increase the pressure from the needle to see if this stops the leak. This is only a "stop gap" repair.

The fuel valve is an on off one yes? If so then in the off position the gas is still flowing...otherwise you wouldn't get the flooded motor in the first place. You need to check this and if it is leaking it has to be repaired otherwise the flooding problem will return. Easy way is to remove the fuel line from the carb end and see if fuel flows in the off position.

Good luck

punkrock114 · 05-17-2008, 09:31 PM

the fuel valve does not leak but the gas from the line is definitly overflowing the bowl causing the flooding. since you guys gave me the advice to run it till its out of gas and then turn the gas back on and fill the bowl and what not it seems to start. i ordered a new valve and seat. i also called for the specs on float height. its 16mm from the gasket. now when he said gasket that is the one on the bowl housing itself correct? when i flip the carb over to adjust float height it should be 16mm from the top of the float to the gasket on the bowl right? im also going to check the float for pin holes as well when i get the new valve and seat, but for now im just running it dry before i shut it off....pain in the arse...man i need to invest in an owners manual for this thing

Aussie Steve · 05-18-2008, 04:46 AM

If the fuel valve is not leaking when you shut it off how is the fuel getting into the carb? As for the float height the measurement is from the gasket face to the highest point of the float... gasket on as you stated.

punkrock114 · 05-18-2008, 09:29 AM

well i really couldnt tell ya how the gas is getting in there. maybe it does leak a little bit but in the time i had the tank off it didnt seem to leak.

05-14-2008, 07:54 PM	#22 (permalink)
Aussie Steve Handlebar Consultant Joined: Jan 2007 Bike: 02 1200 Bandit Location: Western Australia Posts: 642	You stated in an earlier post that the motor seized..are you sure it was a seize...because if it was then there are two things that need to be done. 1: Take it back to the repairer and tell him what has happened. 2: Have the bore and more specifically the rings checked out. If there is a broken ring then there is your problem. I know you said the compression was good but have you rechecked it since? As for the flooding I would set the carb and oil/fuel mix back to standard then work from there...it isn't something simple like a stuck float needle???? As you have stated a motor needs three things to work. 1: Fuel. 2: Air. 3: A spark. compression has little to do with it....any motor will run with low compression albeit badly. If everything is as you say re the carb/engine I would now look at the ignition...especially the plug cap, HT cable, and coil in that order. A spark plug may spark outside a cylinder and appear to be good but under compression that spark may disappear alltogether. This can be caused by other factors than the plug itself as I'm sure you know. Good luck __________________ Once I thought I was wrong.........but I was mistaken

05-15-2008, 12:43 PM	#24 (permalink)
KD57 Can Ride And Chew Gum Joined: Oct 2007 Bike: 2008 ZZR600 Location: Under a rock in Texas Posts: 2,050	Have you checked the fuel valve needle and the float? Seems it's not shutting off the fuel when the bowl gets full. Not leaking enough to be an issue running, but allowing it to sit overnight lets what fuel you have in the line drain to the bowl, thus overfilling it, then it drains into the crankcase. It should run out the overflow hose, but it always doesn't. Try this: get it running, turn the gas off, run it dry. Let it set over night, turn gas back on, give it time to fill the bowl, and see if it will start. If it does, this is your problem. Replace the fuel valve needle, (make sure the seat is clean)and adjust the float to specs. Your jetting is fine, make sure the needle is in 2nd clip from the TOP. You might have to go to a 40 slow jet to really clean up the bottom, especially since you put the Boyesen's in, and if you have a pipe on it. __________________ The "other" ZZR rider.

05-15-2008, 02:52 PM	#28 (permalink)
KD57 Can Ride And Chew Gum Joined: Oct 2007 Bike: 2008 ZZR600 Location: Under a rock in Texas Posts: 2,050	It's a small needle shaped part that is attached to the float by usually a pin or small spring looking thing. As the bowl fills w/ gas, the float rises, then at a certain point the valve presses up against it's seat and stops the flow. As you run it, gas level drops, then more gas is let in thru the valve and the process starts all over. The level of the float would be in the manual, but the adjustmentis correct when the gas level doesn't drop too far to starve the motor, but not too high as to flood it. Have the mechanic take a look at it. Replacing the needle valve is easy, setting float height is more complicated. __________________ The "other" ZZR rider.

05-15-2008, 02:56 PM	#29 (permalink)
KD57 Can Ride And Chew Gum Joined: Oct 2007 Bike: 2008 ZZR600 Location: Under a rock in Texas Posts: 2,050	And don't buy any more 35.00 plugs. Use BR9EG or BR9EV, both are small diameter electrodes, the BR9ES is the standard old plug, but also works. __________________ The "other" ZZR rider.

05-15-2008, 07:07 PM	#31 (permalink)
Aussie Steve Handlebar Consultant Joined: Jan 2007 Bike: 02 1200 Bandit Location: Western Australia Posts: 642	Sorry to be a "I told you so" but I think I mentioned the float needle about 8 posts ago. If it is this the float should have a tang on it that can be bent up or down...where the needle actually fits. If the whole thing is plastic...and quite a few are... then you are correct it is not adjustable. In this case you will have to fit a new needle and or float. If this does not cure the problem then the float needle valve will have to be replaced. Most are unable to be removed but a trick I used years ago was gently tap the valve out a little to increase the pressure on it from the needle. Now this was on a vintage carb with no possibility of replacement. This carb was also a lot more robustly built than many newer ones so could take this kind of treatment. Be well advised that to try this on a newer one made from thinner material could damage the whole thing beyond repair. Good luck __________________ Once I thought I was wrong.........but I was mistaken

05-13-2008, 08:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	well you see the thing is i got the bike back it ran....and in order to get the bike back i sorta had to pay for it. yes it know it is a lil bit rediculous that it doesnt run and i think i already know that...i have a lot of time, money and headaches in this thing and trust me im not happy. it seems to be flooded from what i can see and smell so i am going to wait till my rediculously expensive plugs get here tomarrow and see if it runs. which it should. everything else on it is working like it should. if and only IF it doesnt run i might consider taking it back to these a-holes who rebuilt it. and please dont ask me why i took it there...it will only add to my aggrevation.

05-15-2008, 12:16 PM	#23 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	ok i got my new plugs and after i let it sit for a day and dry up it fired right up. now a day later after i rode it, it ran great;like a top, now its doing the same thing again. after i rode it i shut the gas off to make sure it wouldnt flood up again. this morning when i went out to try to start it...nothing. brand new plug. i pulled it out and it was soaked. it keeps flooding up on me when i try to start it if its not hot. how can this be. i will go over everything i did so far...motor has just been rebuilt, i installed boysen rad valves, jetted the main down from 158 stock, to 155. the pilot is still stock 42 and the needle clip in in the 2nd position now. the pilot air screw is 1 and 3/4 turns out. new air filter and plugs. fuel/oil is at 40:1 and the carb is clean as a whistle. i just dont understand why it floods up on me after letting it sit for a little while. PLEASE help.....

05-15-2008, 12:47 PM	#25 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	ok fuel valve needle...thats the one on the float itself correct?

05-15-2008, 12:54 PM	#26 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	and what a coisidence...i just called the guy who rebuilt it to see if he knew anything...and he said check that. he also said he didnt go over the carb when he had it there. can you believe this guy! he also said it might be weak spark at start up but im inclined to think different seeing how when i put a new plug in it fires.

05-15-2008, 01:11 PM	#27 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	and is there an adlustment on this float...doesnt appear soo

05-15-2008, 08:13 PM	#32 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	ok i really appreciate all the advice. i got it running, with a lil starting fluid (prolly not the best alternative) but i got it going. once it got going it runs awesome. took it for a ride...blasted a bunch of trails like a banshee..didnt wanna load it up..lol but ne who i played around a lil bit with the gas off to burn it up and then pulled it on the truck. once on it started to rev very high and shut off...is this what happens when it gets starved for fuel???? after it shut off i pulled the line off and drained the rest of the fuel out of the line. after i got it back here i pulled a screw in the bowl to see if any gas was left in there and there isnt. so we will see if it fires tomarrow. for one im sick of using starting fluid, not good for it, and two my leg is getting swollen from this kick start nailin me in the back of the knee. but you said a BR9EG or EV will work in place of this plug? same heat range? thanks guys

05-15-2008, 08:17 PM	#33 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	and what is this tang you are refering to? is it the lil metal piece that sticks out where the valve hooks to?

05-16-2008, 08:39 PM	#34 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	well good new guys last night after riding it and shutting the gas off and running it dry, i just went out and tried what you said. i turned the gas on let it fill the float bowl and choked it and after a few kicks it fired right up. i definitly need a needle valve and seat. so i ordered one up. only cost me about as much as one of my plugs so i cant complain there. but i really REALLY thank you guys for the advice in getting this problem sorted out...it saved me a whole hell of alot of money over taking it to the dealership or should i say stealership.

05-17-2008, 05:10 AM	#35 (permalink)
Aussie Steve Handlebar Consultant Joined: Jan 2007 Bike: 02 1200 Bandit Location: Western Australia Posts: 642	The tang is a small metal doobie thingy...technical term... that actually does the pressing against the needle. As you move this one way or the other the float height changes ergo the float level does too. In your case I would suspect the needle has a grove worn into the viton tip causing the fuel to continue flowing when you shut the engine off. As for the engine winding up as it starves of fuel yes it is normal for this to happen..the fuel is getting leaner. Is your fuel valve vacuum operated or do you have to switch it on and off. Reason I'm asking is if fuel is still flowing in the off position then you have a leaking valve. __________________ Once I thought I was wrong.........but I was mistaken Last edited by Aussie Steve; 05-17-2008 at 05:12 AM.

05-17-2008, 08:35 AM	#36 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	no vacuum in that carb. its just a standard Keihn 38mm flat slide carb. and you said the owners manual will have the float hieght in it? or can i get it from the dealer? also the guy i talked to at the dealer said there shouldnt be much adlustment in that float. he said the tang isnt meant to be bent that much

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05-17-2008, 07:52 PM	#37 (permalink)
Aussie Steve Handlebar Consultant Joined: Jan 2007 Bike: 02 1200 Bandit Location: Western Australia Posts: 642	The point is that the standard float height is not shutting the gas off because of wear on the needle tip. As a quick fix you can bend the tang to increase the pressure from the needle to see if this stops the leak. This is only a "stop gap" repair. The fuel valve is an on off one yes? If so then in the off position the gas is still flowing...otherwise you wouldn't get the flooded motor in the first place. You need to check this and if it is leaking it has to be repaired otherwise the flooding problem will return. Easy way is to remove the fuel line from the carb end and see if fuel flows in the off position. Good luck __________________ Once I thought I was wrong.........but I was mistaken

05-17-2008, 09:31 PM	#38 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	the fuel valve does not leak but the gas from the line is definitly overflowing the bowl causing the flooding. since you guys gave me the advice to run it till its out of gas and then turn the gas back on and fill the bowl and what not it seems to start. i ordered a new valve and seat. i also called for the specs on float height. its 16mm from the gasket. now when he said gasket that is the one on the bowl housing itself correct? when i flip the carb over to adjust float height it should be 16mm from the top of the float to the gasket on the bowl right? im also going to check the float for pin holes as well when i get the new valve and seat, but for now im just running it dry before i shut it off....pain in the arse...man i need to invest in an owners manual for this thing

05-18-2008, 04:46 AM	#39 (permalink)
Aussie Steve Handlebar Consultant Joined: Jan 2007 Bike: 02 1200 Bandit Location: Western Australia Posts: 642	If the fuel valve is not leaking when you shut it off how is the fuel getting into the carb? As for the float height the measurement is from the gasket face to the highest point of the float... gasket on as you stated. __________________ Once I thought I was wrong.........but I was mistaken

05-18-2008, 09:29 AM	#40 (permalink)
punkrock114 Where Am I ? Joined: May 2008 Bike: 2000 suzuki RM 250 Location: upstate NY Posts: 47	well i really couldnt tell ya how the gas is getting in there. maybe it does leak a little bit but in the time i had the tank off it didnt seem to leak.