New dead battery

[zenn68]

87 Honda Rebel 450
I've owned 2 days. Put the plates on it today, turn the key and fires right up. Idling really fast so I'm sitting there for about 5-6mins fidling with the choke. During this time span it cuts off about 4-5times but starts right up. After probably the 5th time it wont turn over. No juice left in te battery to crank it. What would cause the battery to drain while idling. If I belive the guy I bought it from (I do) the battery is brand new, instalkled last week. Pulled it out and resated the connectors, battery is clean, and fulled with fluid.
Also, after lewtting it sit for 10-15mins I go back out, turn the key and try to start it, It has more juice now, but not enough to turn over.
Would jumpstarting it from a vehicle cause any damage? What else could I try before buy a new battery.

[Aussie Steve]

Charge the battery fully....did it sit for a while before you got it...batteries like to be trickle charged every few days. No problem with bump starting go for it.

Good luck

[GregR1]

sounds like the battery isn't being charged.

check voltage across battery with bike turned off. should be around 12V, maybe 11.5V or so.
then, get the bike running (somehow) and then check the voltage again at a few rpms (twist the throttle and hold it while looking at the multimeter). should be around 14V, especially at the higher rpms (at lower rpm, might not be quite as high, but it should be more than what you measured when the bike wasn't running).

if you get 12V and then 14V, then the regular seems to be OK and the battery just isn't holding a charge.

if you get 12V and then 12V or lower, then your regulator (charging system) is hosed and need a repair.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Aussie Steve

Charge the battery fully....

Then if it goes dead again in a few days, you know that there was a charging system problem all along and the PO just guessed when he replaced the battery.

Jump starting is OK as long as you are careful.
The supplying vehicle should NOT be running and the cables should be disconnected as soon as the bike starts.

BUT even if you do that, you still should still give the battery a full charge with an external charger......4 to 6 amp charger connected at least 10 hours.

The charging system of a bike is NOT designed to recharge a dead battery. Cars/trucks will; bikes will not.

[zenn68]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

The supplying vehicle should NOT be running

Easy Rider I think you just saved my bike.
I didnt know to not have the vehicle running, I was going to go home after work and jumpstart it, like I would another car.
Thank you.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by zenn68

Easy Rider I think you just saved my bike.
I didnt know to not have the vehicle running, I was going to go home after work and jumpstart it, like I would another car.
Thank you.

My pleasure.

Hope your battery charger will work then after you get it off of dead zero!

Good luck!

[Mydlyfkryzis]

Motorcycles generally do not charge the battery below 2500-3000 rpm. The alternator just can't put out enough. Extended idling will drain the battery.

Recharge the battery (don't use over 2.0 amp charger, a battery tender (Delran) or something like it is best.

My CB360 doesn't give the battery significant amps until about 5K rpm.

[zenn68]

Originally Posted by Mydlyfkryzis

Motorcycles generally do not charge the battery below 2500-3000 rpm. The alternator just can't put out enough. Extended idling will drain the battery.

Recharge the battery (don't use over 2.0 amp charger, a battery tender (Delran) or something like it is best.

My CB360 doesn't give the battery significant amps until about 5K rpm.

Love these forums, so informative.
I'm starting to understand now what happened. Went out this morn and got a trickle charger. Will try it tonight, hopefully i can ride it tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer my post.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by zenn68

Went out this morn and got a trickle charger. Will try it tonight, hopefully i can ride it tomorrow.

Well we are slowly surrounding the problem!

A trickle charger is really intended to maintain a battery that is already fully charged. Using it to recharge a dead battery back up to full capacity may take 24-36 hours.

If an overnight trickle seems to bring it back to life, you might then want to switch back to your "regular" charger to complete the process........probably 8 hours or less.

[GregR1]

SLA batteries are ridiculously easy to charge. you can find LOTS of methods online, and they all boil down to one thing - feed it a certain voltage, and when the current drops to a certain value, either reduce the voltage or go to a constant-current mode or simply disconnect the charger. i think the charge voltage should be 2.2V/cell, so for a 12V battery which has 6 cells, you feed it 13.2V and hope that the charger can put out enough current. check the numbers, though. SLA is such an old and established technology that there isn't a heck of a lot of mystery around it.

[Mydlyfkryzis]

You don't want to exceed 10% of the batteries amp/our rating when charging. My 750NH has a 14 Amp/hour battery. 1.4 amps is the recommended max. You can go alittle over this, but anything over 2 amps will damage the battery. The damage is sulfation, which will shorten the life and output of the battery.

Your battery is likely a 12 Amp/hour size, so about 1.5 amps is plenty.

Yuasa Batteries :: FAQ's

This is from Yuasa Battery.

Explore the site, you'll learn about your battery from here.

Batterytender.com - Home of All Your Charging Needs

This is Battery Tenders Site....more on the different type of charging modes.

[omegajim]

Not knowing the age of the battery, I will offer the following.

Connect jumper cables off a non-running vehicle.

Start the bike.

Get a voltmeter (did I mention you'll need a voltmeter?) and measure the voltage the bike is putting out, er, maintaining. If you give the bike a touch of throttle, the voltmeter should jump up, lock step.

If you get voltage readings over 13 volts, it's safe to say your charging system should be okay.

Most likely a bad battery. I had one go bad after a year and a half.

[zenn68]

Trickle charger did the trick.
Put the battery back on today, fired right up. Thanks all, for the help.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by zenn68

Trickle charger did the trick.
Put the battery back on today, fired right up. Thanks all, for the help.

OK, good. But how do you know that the battery is fully charged?

To repeat from an earlier message:

If an overnight trickle seems to bring it back to life, you might then want to switch back to your "regular" charger to complete the process........probably 8 hours or less.

Then to see how long it holds a charge............

[Aussie Steve]

Guys when I said bump start I meant running alongside the bike with it in gear and the clutch pulled in. Hop at a suitable speed and pop the clutch...its what they used to do at the races...second or third gear is best.

[zenn68]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

OK, good. But how do you know that the battery is fully charged?

To repeat from an earlier message:

If an overnight trickle seems to bring it back to life, you might then want to switch back to your "regular" charger to complete the process........probably 8 hours or less.

Then to see how long it holds a charge............

I don't know that its fully charged, but its enough to start the bike. Also, doesn't the battery charge while riding. I drove around for over an hour.
I don't have a regular charger, just the Schaur(sp) that I picked up.

I have a multimeter, would someone mind going over the procedure for checking a battery with it.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Aussie Steve

Guys when I said bump start I meant running alongside the bike with it in gear and the clutch pulled in. Hop at a suitable speed and pop the clutch...its what they used to do at the races...second or third gear is best.

OK, so after all of the discussion of batteries and charging, etc..............how did we get back to bump starting ????

Are you feeling OK ??

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by zenn68

Also, doesn't the battery charge while riding. I drove around for over an hour.

I have a multimeter, would someone mind going over the procedure for checking a battery with it.

Ahem. We've covered all that in previous messages IN THIS THREAD. Please look back.

Greg covered the charging check.
I covered fully charging a new battery.

You can't really check the "battery" with a multimeter.
It will tell you if it is dead (11 volts or less) or if it might be good (12-12.5V) but that's all. What you are checking is the charging system.

It is good that you are learning how to check the electrical system but, after all this, I suggest your final act should be to visit a "real" battery shop and have them check the battery and charging system. Most will do that free or really cheap. This will validate what you have done and (hopefully) put the whole thing to rest.

[zenn68]

Didnt think of that. I will bring the battery in and have it tested.

Also, yes your right, I looked back over the posts and the info is all there.

[Aussie Steve]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

OK, so after all of the discussion of batteries and charging, etc..............how did we get back to bump starting ????

Are you feeling OK ??

Yes I just wanted to clear up the fact I meant bump starting the bike not jumping it from another bikes battery....I would never try that anyway as the electronic equipment of both bikes can be easily damaged.

As for checking the battery you should get about 12.5 to 13 VDC across the terminals of a good battery. You can check its being charged by running the engine to about 3 to 5K rpm and the multi meter across the terminals should read between 14.5 to 15 VDC. If it isn't there is a fault with the charging circuitry or alternator. This should not go down when the lights are switched on as extra couils in the alternator come into play for the extra current draw

Also I do not know where this idea that an alternator cannot put out enought power...they changed from dynamo type generators on old British iron for the simple reason that an alternator can put out more juice. Many problems occure because the Japs put just enought of an alternator to run everthing on their bikes and no more. Also batteries are now so flimsy internaly that breakdown after a year or so is almost guaranteed...this is the price we pay for fast light bikes.