1999 Yamaha V-Star 650 Classic won't start

[elephant]

.:*copying from another forum - maybe I'll get more help in this one*:.

My friend has a '99 V-Star Classic 650cc that has been sitting for 4-5 months in his garage due to a peice of lumber flying at him on the freeway and knocking the top exhaust pipe off. Recently we got together and tried to get it going so he could take it to the Yamaha dealer to get it really fixed. We noticed when he turned the ingnition to "ON", not start but just on, gas would leak from behind the air cleaner, generously. We took the air cleaner off to see where it was coming from (my guess being a loose line from/to the carb) and we found a hose directly behind the air cleaner that was open, not blocked off by anything or attached anywhere.

The bike will not start, but tries to. We think it's just build-up in the floats and the guy at the Yama shop agreed and told us to take the carb apart to blow out the lines and everything.

I'm totally new to bikes and my friend, I suppose, has never had to work on his current or any previous one he's owned. I am, however, really savvy when it comes to cars. My father owns a resto shop for classic muscle cars and I grew up learning how to build cars. But like I said, this is all new to me. I'm at a loss, and can't figure out where that line is suppose to be going, but it does come from the carb. Any thoughts? Any suggestions on at least getting it started so we can get it to the shop to get completely fixed?

Here are the pics::

The first one is from the right hand side (if you are sitting on the bike. It is a picture of that hose I'm talking about where the gas is coming out when you turn the key to "ON". It is located behind the air cleaner. It's the hose in the bracket, between the two allen head bolts you see in the pic:



This next pic is of the left (I'm guessing the main one we need to clean out) carb. This is where motorcycle carbs and automotive carbs differ, for me. I can't see where to take the stuff out to clean the damn thing. I'm to the point where getting a can of carb cleaner and aiming the little straw nozzle in there and letting rip is starting to sound like a good idea. Lol. Basically, where do I go from here?



And for whatever reason, here is a pic of the top of the carb with the air induction taken off...dunno if it matters, maybe it'll help somebody here tell me what I need to do:



Any ideas?

~elephant

[Madwrench73]

That hose is actually the carb float bowl vent. If you've got fuel coming out of there its most likely because one or both of the floats were stuck open. Looks like you need to pull those carbs off and give them a good cleaning. Looking at your pic, from left to right, you have the pilot jet, main jet, starter jet. The starter jet is not removable. Remove the pilots and mains, make sure all the passages are clear. That should be about it, except for synchronizing.

[elephant]

UPDATE:::

Ok, took the carb completely off today, took the bowl off again, took out the pilot and main jet on the primary carb and gave them a thorough cleaning using gas (no carb cleaner handy). LOTS of gunk was to be had inside those tiny parts. The floats work perfectly fine, as well as the starter jet, as far as I can tell from moving the floats with my fingers. Next, I went ahead and replaced the plugs, just for %%%%s and giggles since it'd never been done. Also bypassed what I *think* is some kind of fuel line kill unit. Basically, the fuel line went from the tank, to what I'm assuming is a filter, then to a metal unit that had an inlet and outlet, straight to the carb. I'm guessing this is hooked up to the kill switch by the throttle...??? After taking that unit out of the chain, the bike was starting up and running for another second or two longer than before. It was really late, about 2:40am, when we finally got the carb back on after cleaning so the startup was just a quickie. It is missing one muffler so it is VERY loud right now.

One thing I noticed is that the needle going through the barrels only appears to be operating on the secondary carb when trying to start it. However when the bike starts up, and runs for all of a whopping 2 seconds, I can see it spraying fuel into the barrels, and the needles move rapidly as they should. My friend and I have wierd work schedules the next couple of days so it looks like the next day I'll get to play with it is Saturday (hopefully *that* soon).

As it is now, I'm not sure the bike will keep going any longer than a couple of seconds, but hopefully this Saturday we'll get on it during the day so we can really find out. If it doesn't keep going, I know without a doubt it's the carb that is goofing things up. I'm betting after sitting so long it's just got too much gunk and deposits caked on inside of it. The fact that it starts for a second or two checks off two out of three things needed for an engine to work:

Fuel
Compression
Spark

We have compression, because it does start and run for 1-2 seconds before dying. In turn we obviously have spark. The last factor is fuel. The lines are all clean and clear, the last stop is the carb though. Anyone know of the market price for a used/refurb carb for a 99 XVS650 is? Or a good place online that maybe has them, or even just a rebuild kit? I'd rather ditch the rebuild idea, it's becoming a pain in the ass to tear down this carb. Almost every screw head is stripped, and at that only about half of them actually budged and came loose. To avoid the headache of getting all these screws off, I'd like to entertain the idea of a whole new carb, or at least a used/reconditioned one. Ideas?

~elephant

[Madwrench73]

What you bypassed is the fuel pump. Not sure new carbs is the right way to go. Those carbs are fairly easy to clean. But you do need to clean both of them. You can buy new pilot jets at any dealer. If they are really gunked up it would easier to just replace them. It doesnt sound like anything else really needs to be replaced. Give both carbs a good cleaning with carb cleaner and see how that goes. I think that will be enough to get that bike running.

[blackie1491]

I hope you replaced the old gas with new. (Drain Tank)

Tell your friend if he intends to leave the bike sitting for any length of time to add Sta-bil to the gas.

[elephant]

It was the freakin fuel pump?!? Damn. Alright. Well, then it's obviously not gravity-fed. But then why did the bike run for a second or two longer without that in the chain?

The problem with cleaning the carbs is that the main one came apart fine to clean the jets, but the (I'm guessing it's called this) secondary carb won't come apart nearly as easily. The screws holding on the bowl just won't budge. The heads are nearly stripped to hell, and I don't know what else to do other than putting the phillips head screwdriver in them and while holding firmly and turning hitting the screwdriver with a hammer. That worked for 3/4 screws on the secondary's bowl. The fourth screw just will not budge though. I'm thinking go ahead and just knock the heads off of them, tap them and drill them out and just get new screws when we get new jets.

A rebuild kit is about $15 online for this bike's carbs. I'm going to call or go to the Yama dealer down the road and see if they have any, and if they're cheaper, and also to look at the bikes in the show room

Do you think maybe the fuel pump needs to be replaced? Is there any way to work on it myself? As in, taking it apart and whatnot.

~elephant

[Madwrench73]

Hook the fuel pump back up to the tank and run the other end that goes to the carbs into a container. Turn the key on and see if the fuel pump is flowing fuel. Should be about 1 liter per minute. Thats not exact but anything near that would be fine. It will run being gravity fed but gravity feeding wont flow enough fuel to run the bike at 55+ MPH. Heat the area around the screws up a little then get a hold of the heads of them with a good pair of pliers. Long nose vise-grips work well.

[elephant]

Alright, I'll try all of that. Heat the heads of the screws up with what exactly? I have a Bernz-O-Matic propane torch, and while that sounds kind of dumb to me it may not as long as the gas in the carb is evaporated...which doesn't take long. Right? Or how else can I heat the heads?

~elephant

[elephant]

Ok, found out the fuel pump is NOT working correctly, it works intermittently and then eventually stops working altogether. The bike fires for about a second before dying, and that's only after priming with gasoline in the barrels or using starter fluid sprayed into the barrels.

Called the Yamaha dealer for a price on a fuel pump...one-hundred and eighty-five freakin' dollars. Do they take medication on a regular basis because I think they missed a dose or two. A fuel pump for a car at the local AutoZone averages about $14. What the hell is so special about a pump for a Yamaha bike? Can't be anything spectacular, the design for a fuel pump has been around for....how many decades now? To my knowledge the design hasn't changed much. Even the one for my Volkswagen, imported from Germany, and overpriced ON TOP of that is only about $40.

Yamaha doesn't make rebuild kits for their carbs, but they do sell the parts seperately. $9 each for the jets. So for what I can find on the net for $14.95+s&h I can get from the Yamaha dealer for about $40-50 total, not including tax.

Where the hell do these companies get off charging this much for their crap?

~elephant

[vstar]

Hello, I hope I am doing this correctly.
It seems that I have the same problem as elephant and I was wondering if you got the bike up and running. How much was the fuel pump? I am going to attempt the repair by the weekend depending on parts availability.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by vstar

Hello, I hope I am doing this correctly.

You're doing just fine.

Since the post you replied to is about 10 months old, however, "elephant" may not be around anymore (or very often) to see your question.

Hopefully somebody else will chime in.
They might even have some useful information to offer!!



Don't be a stranger.

[Aussie Steve]

Unfortuantly most Jap fuel pumps are of the "non repairable" ilk and a new one is the only way to go since they don't make spares for them.

As for Elephants rant re prices wellllll! if you choose a Jap/European bike get used to being charged like a wounded bull they have to pay for all the r&d someway and it certainly isn't from selling new bikes!

[Roger1948]

Hi everyone,

New to forum and writing to you from the great southwest where bike riding is really great now.

Have three yamaha units. 1100 silverado, 650 classic, and 660 rhino for desert riding. Enjoy reading all the post.

Roger1948