M50 fiberglass rebaffle for low $$$ (merged)

[squale]

I debaffled, demickeyed and put in 6.5 inch fibrosleeves. I feel like my bike has more power now. Everything else is completely stock on the bike. But it feels like I can run the bike at higher speeds before shifting to the next higher gear. For instance from 4th gear to 5th gear I don't shift until around 60mph now.
before this I was shifting at like 50-55

[alexg57]

Hey guys,

A tad bit of a thread fork here, but definitely on topic... I called the local bike shop near work, and I was told they have five grades of the muffler packing there. I'm going to head in to check them out in about 4 hours, but I wanted to know if there were any general rules of thumb on what to use for a fibrosleeve. For example, if I can get it any thicker than the 1" that DJ recommends in the original posting, would it further reduce the overall volume or change the tone of the sound? I mean, what would a 2" thickness do to the sound, you think? I suppose I could just try each of the thicknesses myself, but I'm not one to waste

Dig!
~ alex

[diamond_jim]

Originally Posted by alexg57

Hey guys,

A tad bit of a thread fork here, but definitely on topic... I called the local bike shop near work, and I was told they have five grades of the muffler packing there. I'm going to head in to check them out in about 4 hours, but I wanted to know if there were any general rules of thumb on what to use for a fibrosleeve. For example, if I can get it any thicker than the 1" that DJ recommends in the original posting, would it further reduce the overall volume or change the tone of the sound? I mean, what would a 2" thickness do to the sound, you think? I suppose I could just try each of the thicknesses myself, but I'm not one to waste

Dig!
~ alex

If you use the Moose muffler packing that I posted a pic on a few times in different threads, you can't go wrong. If it's another brand, make sure that it is dense and that it is contained in a sheet form instead of loose packing. Two inches I think would be too thick. The 1" packing compresses to about a 1/2" thick when installed. Thicker than that then you are probably restricting the airflow much more than you need to. The narrower the diameter the greater the pressure develops as the exhaust moves through the fibrosleeve. The greater the pressure the more of a "pop, pop" sound you'll get instead of a deeper sounding growl.

[alexg57]

Originally Posted by diamond_jim

If you use the Moose muffler packing that I posted a pic on a few times in different threads, you can't go wrong. If it's another brand, make sure that it is dense and that it is contained in a sheet form instead of loose packing. Two inches I think would be too thick. The 1" packing compresses to about a 1/2" thick when installed. Thicker than that then you are probably restricting the airflow much more than you need to. The narrower the diameter the greater the pressure develops as the exhaust moves through the fibrosleeve. The greater the pressure the more of a "pop, pop" sound you'll get instead of a deeper sounding growl.

Good point. The three kinds that the guy recommended for this particular job weren't particularly "spot on." The first - Fly Racing's Silencer Packing - looks exactly like what you have in the picture... at least from what I can tell from that little picture. The other two were white; one thicker and more loosely packed, and the other thinner and much more densly packed. I would say it was less than 1/2" thick. I thought about trying to the tightly packed stuff, but decided to give the gray stuff a shot first. I might just try the other stuff later for comparison's sake; each of the packages ranged from $8 to $10, so no big deal there.

A little bit of ranting is in order, though... I then went to Lowe's to pick up the other two ingredients, but I came up empty handed with the wire mesh. The closest things they had were a gutter mesh that looked like the right material but was much too thin (probably 5" by 6' in size), and some tightly coiled-up chicken wire that was clearly not springy enough. So I'll stop by the Home Depot by work tomorrow and hopefully get the right stuff. Grrr!

[alexg57]

What is the deal here?! Apparently all the Home Depots and Lowes in my area don't carry sheets of mesh; only the weak rolled up stuff. I called a local concrete place, but they only carry 20-foot lengths of their wire mesh. Anyone know where I can get the mesh online, or even have some spare laying around?

Thanks guys,

[alexg57]

Originally Posted by alexg57

What is the deal here?! Apparently all the Home Depots and Lowes in my area don't carry sheets of mesh; only the weak rolled up stuff. I called a local concrete place, but they only carry 20-foot lengths of their wire mesh. Anyone know where I can get the mesh online, or even have some spare laying around?

Thanks guys,

So I found this at Lowe's the other day, but I thought it would be too narrow to use. It's 5" wide, so it might actually work. The hinges on it can be cut off easily enough, and the material felt thick/strong enough for this job. The only thing that worries me is that it's made of aluminum. Would that be able to hold up to the heat inside the pipes? What is the masonry mesh made of? I assume steel, but I'm not for sure from the pictures.

Thanks!

~ alex

[DIN-K-DAU]

Hey alex,
I used 5 gallon paint can strainers. They are made out of thin expanded metal and very springy. You cut the mesh to the size you need. The were only @$2 each. I've had them in for about 1000 miles and are holding up good. I really love the sound of debaffle and dia jims fibrosleeve thingy.

[alexg57]

Originally Posted by DIN-K-DAU

Hey alex,
I used 5 gallon paint can strainers. They are made out of thin expanded metal and very springy. You cut the mesh to the size you need. The were only @$2 each. I've had them in for about 1000 miles and are holding up good. I really love the sound of debaffle and dia jims fibrosleeve thingy.

Something like this?

Thanks, Din!

~ alex

[alexg57]

Originally Posted by alexg57

Something like this?

Thanks, Din!

~ alex

Nevermind, that stuff is made of cloth

I ended up going with that gutter grate stuff. It's about 5.5" x 3' of galvanized steel grating that has just enough bounce to it. The size worked out since I didn't de-mickey my pipes and only had a hair over 8" from the mickey plate to the end, anyway.

Interestingly, I thought that the sound of debaffled wasn't very different from 8 x 5/16" drill holes. Just a hair louder, but not much else. The weather isn't that great so I haven't had a chance to ride with the fibrosleeve in, but at idle it definitely sounds less like the "clug clug clug" that Harleys make. Thanks for the DYI, Jim!

[CajunCountry]

Jim and Everyone else. My batting came in the mail yesterday and I put it in today. I still have the third plate about 11" back. I made two sleeves about 8 or 9 inches. WOW did they cut down on the sound noise considerable. Actually too much. I need to shorten them or take out the 3rd plate and reuse these.

BUT THAT NOISE THAT I CAN FEEL IN MY SKULL IS STILL THERE!

I imagine it's the 2 cylinders firing and I'm feeling them in my skull! I think it's this cause when I pull in the clutch it goes away! Let the clutch out and it's back. It only gets a little louder with the higher RPM's (throttling), but it does not change cadence (rate of tapping).

It's been tamed by 1/2 with the sleeve, but it's still there. It's quite annoying and I'll have the shop look at that issue when I take it in for my first "checkup"! But if that noise/feeling doesn't go away I'm afraid I'll have to go back to the stock pipes.

OH AND MY ENGINE GUARDS CAME IN ALSO YESTERDAY!!!

[loki]

Originally Posted by alexg57

A little bit of ranting is in order, though... I then went to Lowe's to pick up the other two ingredients, but I came up empty handed with the wire mesh. The closest things they had were a gutter mesh that looked like the right material but was much too thin (probably 5" by 6' in size), and some tightly coiled-up chicken wire that was clearly not springy enough. So I'll stop by the Home Depot by work tomorrow and hopefully get the right stuff. Grrr!

Actually, I ended up using the gutter mesh you're talking about...So far, after 200 mi, no problems. Also, I placed the mesh inside the PVC pipe w/ after placing the fiberglass mat in the pipes (it appears to be a bit thicker than the stuff DJ has in his pics). That way it was possible to just slide the PVC through the fiberglass and push the mesh out while pulling pack the PVC...

[Pinhead78]

The wire grid that Jim used are normally found in the Building Materials section next to the drywall and 5 gallon buckets of drywall mud. They are probably going to have it in a 2' x 5' or 2' x 8' sections that go for around $8. You will have plenty of left over. I took out Plate #2 and added a firbosleeve over the weekend, and feel its way too quiet! I am going to pull the Fibrosleeves out sometime this week and shorten them.

Just to be clear in the order of plates as everyone has described:

Plate #1 is the plate that is removed during the de-baffle stage with the 3" hole saw and 1" hole saw combo as shown in the video. This is when the exhaust is completely stock. This is the plate that everyone drills small holes in, then bigger holes, then gets out the 3" hole saw to de-baffle.

Plate #2 is the plate that looks like the "mickey mouse", with two small pipes on the top and one larger pipe going thru the bottom of the plate. Removal of this plate is referred to as "de-mickey"ing. This requires a DJ Man Hammer or a 2 3/4" hole saw with a 12" long drill extension.

Plate #3 is the plate with one pipe running thru the bottom of the plate. No nickname has been offered to this plate yet, but I am sure there will be one soon.

Is there a Plate #4?

If I remove Plate #3, will I have a straight pipe exhaust?

I guess this is the same question asked two different ways. Although, I feel that if I have this question, many other people do as well.

[alexg57]

Originally Posted by loki

Actually, I ended up using the gutter mesh you're talking about...So far, after 200 mi, no problems. Also, I placed the mesh inside the PVC pipe w/ after placing the fiberglass mat in the pipes (it appears to be a bit thicker than the stuff DJ has in his pics). That way it was possible to just slide the PVC through the fiberglass and push the mesh out while pulling pack the PVC...

I should have tried this. I did it exactly like Jim did and the mesh kept on chewing up the fiberglass as I was sliding the whole thing in. It took a lot of finess to finally get it right. Also, I should have worn gloves. Not only did I get the ol' itchy/painful fiberglass feeling all of my hands and arms, but my finger tips had like a thousand tiny cuts in them!

I'll probably end up doing a de-mickey and possibly use a different muffler packing material. The shop from which I purchased my first batch had some more densly packed stuff that looked like it would not only slide in better, but might also muffle the sound better. I'll just have to deal with it being white - it probably won't stay that way for long, though!

From what I hear, though, a full-length fibersleeve with the first two plates gone is actually quieter than a half-length one with just the first plate gone? See, this is where the decibel testing would really help

~ alexg

[alexg57]

Originally Posted by Pinhead78

The wire grid that Jim used are normally found in the Building Materials section next to the drywall and 5 gallon buckets of drywall mud. They are probably going to have it in a 2' x 5' or 2' x 8' sections that go for around $8. You will have plenty of left over. I took out Plate #2 and added a firbosleeve over the weekend, and feel its way too quiet! I am going to pull the Fibrosleeves out sometime this week and shorten them.

I'll check again, but I looked in the building material / masonry sections and couldn't find anything that would work.

Originally Posted by Pinhead78

Just to be clear in the order of plates as everyone has described:

Plate #1 is the plate that is removed during the de-baffle stage with the 3" hole saw and 1" hole saw combo as shown in the video. This is when the exhaust is completely stock. This is the plate that everyone drills small holes in, then bigger holes, then gets out the 3" hole saw to de-baffle.

Plate #2 is the plate that looks like the "mickey mouse", with two small pipes on the top and one larger pipe going thru the bottom of the plate. Removal of this plate is referred to as "de-mickey"ing. This requires a DJ Man Hammer or a 2 3/4" hole saw with a 12" long drill extension.

Plate #3 is the plate with one pipe running thru the bottom of the plate. No nickname has been offered to this plate yet, but I am sure there will be one soon.

Is there a Plate #4?

If I remove Plate #3, will I have a straight pipe exhaust?

I guess this is the same question asked two different ways. Although, I feel that if I have this question, many other people do as well.

Someone who has removed more of the plates can confirm, but I'm pretty sure there are only three plates. Remove all three, and you've got straight pipes.

~ alexg

[cyclesinct]

Pinhead, yes if you remove the third plate you'd have straight pipes. There are only three (counting the first one when you debaffled). After that there is the mickey plate and then a third plate (not sure what people call that one???) but there are only 3 that I am sure of.

[Pinhead78]

Originally Posted by diamond_jim

Earlier in the thread I was thinking the very back had a plate and that it was the third plate. I had forgotten that I had already taken the third plate out. I was thinking the 20.5 inches was from the plate behind the mickey and to the end of the pipe. I got all comfused!

Ok, so Jim removed Plate #3. Jim has straight pipes. How do they sound Diamond Jim? Any other problems; backfiring, popping?

Another thing, if removal of Plate #3 causes this, then I can always drill a hole in it and see what that does!

[smooth159]

thanks for all the good information but, I have to ask. What does demickey mean? As this term was not used in the video by Lyd that I viewed.

[Pinhead78]

Originally Posted by Pinhead78

Just to be clear in the order of plates as everyone has described:

Plate #1 is the plate that is removed during the de-baffle stage with the 3" hole saw and 1" hole saw combo as shown in the video. This is when the exhaust is completely stock. This is the plate that everyone drills small holes in, then bigger holes, then gets out the 3" hole saw to de-baffle.

Plate #2 is the plate that looks like the "mickey mouse", with two small pipes on the top and one larger pipe going thru the bottom of the plate. Removal of this plate is referred to as "de-mickey"ing. This requires a DJ Man Hammer or a 2 3/4" hole saw with a 12" long drill extension.

Plate #3 is the plate with one pipe running thru the bottom of the plate. No nickname has been offered to this plate yet, but I am sure there will be one soon.

Smooth159- not diggin ya, but see Plate #2 above.

I have never quoted myself before....oh wait, yeah I have.
"Its not about what you ride, its about your hair in the air." Me

[FormerF150Owner]

I finally got enough nerve to debaffle today. It was slightly harder than I expected it to be. Then again, anytime I think I can do a job in 30 minutes it will take over an hour or more.

I had 2 separate bi-metal saw bits - the 3"inch and 1.5" inch. I let the 3"inch wobble around and thought it would finally get a "bite" and just drill right through.

I read a previous post about the metal shavings so I pulled my M out in the yard.

About 1/2 way through the electric started smoking. I would let it cool a few minutes and then hit it again. Once the smoke started really pouring out of the drill and I was sweating profusely - the 11 year old daughter and wife came out to see what was going on. I couldn't help but think of diamond jim posting how his wife came out to see what was going on, shook her head, and went back in the house. (that post of his still makes me chuckle).

My daughter asked me why I was drilling out the pipes and I told her I "wanted to give it a deeper sound". She gave me that "you’re an idiot" look and then went back into the house.

My wife then asked me if I need to buy a new drill (it looked like it was on fire it because it was smoking so bad). When I told her I would probably need a new drill within the next 3 minutes she walked back into the house mumbling something like "this project just keeps costing us money".

After the drill gave up the ghost I traveled the short distance to the infamous tool store we all love (Target) to get a drill to finish up. I looked around at ALL the electric drills they have and decided I would get the ONE AND ONLY electric model they offer.

By the way, when a drill is dying the death of overheating it gives off an odor strong enough to make you puke (just in case anyone is interested).

End result is (drum roll please) -- I think it sounds awesome and I don't even have the infamous "fibro sleeve" installed. Not too loud but you know the bike is near.

Thanks to all those who take the time do the mods and then take the time to post the instructions and the pics. This forum has taught me a lot and keeps me laughing.

[Pinhead78]

Nice work. Next is the "de-Mickey".

Keep in mind that Diamond Jim's "Fibrosleeve" will quiet the bike down somewhat, but the sound will be better. I have 6" sleeves now and will probably cut them in half one of these rainy days. It's going to be clear skies and almost 90 all week in Cleveland, so I am going to be riding, not modding.