1st Bike....GS500F

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

A bike will only go as fast as the person driving it wants it to go, and if you don't have the coordination to control your wrist - you should be walking around wearing a bicycle helmet.

It is a sad world......where everybody is not perfect like you.
Thanks for illustrating my point so well.

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

It is a sad world......where everybody is not perfect like you.
Thanks for illustrating my point so well.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

I'm not perfect, but if you can't physically control your wrist enough to keep a vehicle going the speed you want it to go, you flat out should not be on one and are in need of help.

Yes, I understand your opinion.

What you don't seem to understand IS:
People have different skill sets depending on their life experiences and their genetic physical makeup.
People learn at different rates.

Just because a new rider can't control a 1/4 turn racing throttle right NOW doesn't mean that they never can.

It also doesn't mean that someone who can't reliably control a bike that puts 20 HP to the pavement with a slight tweek of the throttle.....also can't control one that only produces 2 HP with that same slight twist.

The simple fact of the matter is that MOST brand new riders are safer and will learn the basic skills quicker and better if they start out on a bike that is NOT too tall, too powerful or too heavy.

You can disagree with that all you want but it won't change the facts.

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

I'm not perfect, but if you can't physically control your wrist enough to keep a vehicle going the speed you want it to go, you flat out should not be on one and are in need of help.

That is not an accurate statement. Learning on a smaller, less powerful bike is a good idea. You learn more on a smaller bike. You learn how to ride easier and learn how to control the bike better. Having a less powerful bike makes it one less thing that someone new has to worry about as they are learning to ride. People who are trying to learn on more powerful bikes tend to take the corners slower, roll on the power easier, and then try to use the power to shoot them down the straight. On a lighter and less powerful bike, people tend to carry more momentum through the corner and are not as worried about rolling on the throttle earlier. They are more focused on bike control rather than worrying about being too hard on the throttle. Read any book written by the real experts who teach people to be fast and they will all say the same thing.

As far as a sport bike going from 0 to holy crap faster than a newbie can handle is not an opinion. It is a fact. As you gain experience, things seem to slow down and you seem to have more time to react. In the beginning it is all overwhelming. If you are not used to something that can get to 60 mph in under 4 seconds, it is over whelming.

I don't know how much experience you have that gives you your opinion. I don't know how fast or slow you are. But, you argue a point that you cannot back up and is not backed up by anyone with a lot of real experience.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Davecm203

I don't know how much experience you have that gives you your opinion. I don't know how fast or slow you are. But, you argue a point that you cannot back up and is not backed up by anyone with a lot of real experience.

Give it up. He has not outgrown the "I know everything and you know nothing" stage of blissful youth yet. Hopefully some day he will.

"A truly wise man is one who knows that he knows not."

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

Learning on a smaller less powerful bike IS a good idea. I'm not saying it isn't. However for the majority of people I would have to say 250 is impractical. It is something you get bored with too fast. A 600 (for a sports bike) is a nice sized engine to learn on.

As for your claim "As far as a sport bike going from 0 to holy crap faster than a newbie can handle is not an opinion. It is a fact. As you gain experience, things seem to slow down and you seem to have more time to react. In the beginning it is all overwhelming. If you are not used to something that can get to 60 mph in under 4 seconds, it is over whelming." Post your source on this. Make it scientific. I don't care what Jim-Bob-Joe the expert says unless it's defined by physics. If it's not an event in history, or can't be backed up by scientific evidence such as physics. Then you cannot claim it to be a fact.

So find out the energy measurements, then find out how much is scientifically "Too powerful" (again would not be fact based, because too much power is a RELATIVE term). You claim "in the beginning it's all overwhelming". Not for me, maybe you just need better hand-eye coordination. I started out on a bike that could go 0-60 in under 4 seconds. You know what - I wasn't overwhelmed. You see I have this thing attached to my arm, it's called a wrist. Now this wrist, which I had had for 16 years when I started riding bikes, I got pretty good with using, I can open doors, jars, cans, and you know what, I could control the twisting motion PRETTY GOOD if I don't say so myself. So I could make it go 5, 10, 15, 100, 125 MPH. I can control that. Are you saying that at the age of 16 (or whenever you started riding) your control of your wrists that you had used for YEARS was so poor that you couldn't control the throttle? You might need to get your nerves checked out, make sure they're receiving all the signals that your brain is sending them. On the other hand - if you're claiming the OVERWHELMINGNESS (i know that's prolly a made up word) is so difficult that you can't twist your wrist (which you've been doing for years and should be a master at) and something else at the same time? Then you are so un-coordinated you shouldn't be on the road.. even in a car. You have to move your arms, work your foot, read, work a lever or two. MAN SO OVERWHELMING.

And for your "I don't know how much experience you have that gives you your opinion. I don't know how fast or slow you are. But, you argue a point that you cannot back up and is not backed up by anyone with a lot of real experience." paragraph - I have been riding for 8 years. 3 on a 600, 5 on a 1000. You don't know how fast or slow I am - I will tell you, I drive my vehicle fast, and if you're talking about how mentally fast or slow I am - I had to take 3 IQ tests over the years. When I was 19 I scored a 128. When I was 21 I scored a 131. And when I was 23 (last year) I scored a 133.

I have backed my point up many times. All the points you are arguing are opinions, just as mine are. None are facts, and to claim that "As far as a sport bike going from 0 to holy crap faster than a newbie can handle is not an opinion. It is a fact." - to make that claim just shows that you don't understand the basic definition of the word fact. A fact is something that undeniably happened, or can be proven. Saying that a sport bike going from 0 to holy crap (holy crap isn't even a measurement for crying out loud) faster than a newbie can handle (FASTER THAN A NEWBIE CAN HANDLE - let's break this down for a second, faster (relative) than a newbie can handle (relative). All relates to each person's ability, defined by them self, and CANNOT in any way be determined fact by you or me.)

First of all, I do not know what your IQ has to do with anything. My IQ is very high (tested in the military and even took the MENSA exam with a friend). An IQ test tells us nothing and is completely irrelevant. That has nothing it do with anything. What you keep saying is fact is not fact but flawed opinion. You ask that we back our statements and opinions with fact yet you cannot do the same. You are applying your own personal opinion and experience to the discussion and have nothing else to compare it too.


To say that I have no coordination, again, you need to know who you are talking to. I have always been a good athlete. I have raced cars as well as track days on motorcycles. I put in over 10,000 miles a year on a motorcycle for over 23 years. I was also an Infantry Marine who fought in combat, performed admirably, and was decorated as a result. I was also a competitive shooter that requires focus, discipline, and performance under pressure that is higher than I experience on a motorcycle on a track at speed. I also have a wall full of trophies to prove that. And I was a police officer in a small town for several years where I worked in very dangerous situations without any back up. I would say that I am more than capable of multi-tasking and have excellent hand-eye coordination as well as physical discipline and control. Oh, and no one has ever called me a coward.

I have known plenty of people who have owned fast motorcycles for years and I do not ride with them. They are not good riders and I do not feel safe around them. They lack control of the bike. They think they are fast and that they are good. The fact is, they are not. They ride way to fast for the street between the curves, over brake into them, and then wait until they are completely upright to try to rocket down the next straight.

You said that what each person can handle is up to that person. That is true, but my argument was not "no one can handle x". My point was that most people will learn more with a smaller, lighter, less powerfully bike. (Or did you do poorly on your reading comprehension?) That is the same reason the Red Bull Cup series races on 250 two-strokes. The same reason that in auto racing you must start out in a lower class and work your way up. Adding one more complicating factor into and already complicated task adds more to learn and more to deal with. You will learn the basics quicker and better if you take the power out of the equation.

That being said, I don't always recommend a 250 as a first bike. Depending on the person, it may be a 500 or 650 twin. It depends on the person as too which I would recommend as a first bike. But, I would never recommend a GSXR600 as a first unless the person has some type of experience with a motorcycle already.

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Give it up. He has not outgrown the "I know everything and you know nothing" stage of blissful youth yet. Hopefully some day he will.

"A truly wise man is one who knows that he knows not."

Oops, you posted that as I was typing a response. I wish I saw your post first. I am not going to argue with him any more. Just not worth it.

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

I AM NOT CLAIMING MINE TO BE FACT. I have stated many times mine is NOT fact, you said it "As far as a sport bike going from 0 to holy crap faster than a newbie can handle is not an opinion. It is a fact." I am the one saying these are opinions. I started saying that he was saying an opinion is fact. That has been my argument all along.

The IQ thing was in relation to you saying "I don't know how fast or slow you are" so I put up a measurement that can be related to a specific term of being slow or now. Someone with an IQ lower than i think 75 can't go to public schools. Someone with an IQ higher than 140 is considered a genius. I'm not claiming to be. but from your slow or fast comment, I said I ride my bike fast, and then I gave youa scale so you know I'm not retarded.

Once again to state - I KNOW MINE IS OPINION. It's apparent you think your opinions are facts.

Uh, we are talking about motorcycles. Not IQ, intelligence, or (obviously) common sense. Therefore I was referring to how fast are you on a motorcycle. Do you get left behind in the canyons on group rides or leaving everyone else for dead? On track days are you running toward the front of the pack or getting passed in the tight section by the girl on the pink Ninja 250?

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

You have been riding for over 23 years on a bike. Well length of time doing something does not equal to greater knowledge. Seeing as how you are such an amazing athlete with the coordination apparently as precise as NASA's guidance systems on space missions - you should know that any bike will only go as fast as someone makes it.

For the rest of your BS in this paragraph - I don't care that you were a police officer, and what does not have ever been called a coward have to do with anything we're talking about here?

I'm gonna go ahead and say it. You are a coward. Now I don't actually think that, but now you can't use that stupid line where it doesn't make sense anywhere ever again.

In my opinion, you basically called me one. That is why I put that in there. I also explained that I have excellent hand and eye coordination.

I am not arguing with you any more. You fail to understand the points any one else is trying to make.

[Davecm203]

Edit: Removed

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

No - go proof read your statement. You said you wouldn't recommend a gsxr600 for a first bike, unless they had experience with a motorcycle already.

That means, unless they've had a bike before (experience) you wouldn't recommend a 600 as a first bike. It can't be a first bike if they've had a bike before.

WOW!! A little common sense goes a long way. Experience such as in grew up ridding dirt bikes or maybe rode friends motorcycles. I was referring to a first bike as a first street bike or the first street bike owned. Sorry you missed the inference or that I did not make it clear enough.

PS, I did remove the post after posting it. Obviously you spotted it first. It was immature of me and that is why I removed it.

[geoffsimpson]

....Ha! Awesome

Thanks for the chuckle fella's

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

"Except for the Ninja 250, sport bikes go from 0 to HOLY CRAP way to fast for a new rider" is NOT a fact, and is an opinion.

That's all I said at the beginning, is that I don't agree with that statement.

One more shot.

You keep twisting and twisting and twisting some more.

That is NOT what you said in the beginning. You said my statement is BS and then "A bike will only go as fast as the person driving it wants it to go."

THAT certainly is an opinoin......and a flawed one at that.......since crashes prove that riders sometimes do things they don't want to do.

Give it up. You are making yourself look foolish. (And, yes, that is an opinion.)

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by ricketycricket

Back to the subject at hand a GS500F is a great first bike. Doesn't have too much power, ..........

I don't F***ing believe it.

No, that's a lie. It really doesn't surprise me.

[tricker]

deleted post.. not worth my time for those with little man complex

[geoffsimpson]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

I don't F***ing believe it.

No, that's a lie. It really doesn't surprise me.

How is it a lie? Use fact. FWIW neither one of you are going to win this...so slug it out until the threads locked

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by geoffsimpson

How is it a lie? Use fact. FWIW neither one of you are going to win this...so slug it out until the threads locked

We can get the thead locked!?! Let's fight some more. Round 7. Ding ding.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by geoffsimpson

How is it a lie? Use fact.

I lied when I said "I don't believe he said that".
Get it now ??

[geoffsimpson]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

I lied when I said "I don't believe he said that".
Get it now ??

I love it when you speak to me like i'm a child.

[Davecm203]

Originally Posted by geoffsimpson

I love it when you speak to me like i'm a child.

And you love it even more when he lays you across his lap and spanks you.