Weeble Wobble Front end?? Any ideas???

[moccasin]

Its a shame that your dealer has to resort to idiocy when he is at a total loss in the tech department. Your pipes aren't causing your wobble, and neither are your neck or wheel bearings.

Aftermarket pipes may cause your Stapes to wobble (inner ear bone), and they might cause the blue light to wobble on the fancy car behind you, but they won't have any effect on handling, even if you mount them backwards!! HAHA!!

Loose neck bearings are pretty obviously found just by jacking the front wheel off the ground and moving the forks fore and aft. If you can't they aren't. Worn neck bearings will create a "detent" in the turning radius and actually work to PREVENT wobbling. You get the weird sensation that the bike always wants to point directly ahead.

Worn wheel bearings will talk to you, and poorly aligned wheel bearings won't allow axle installation, so rule them out too.

There are three major contributing factors to front end DECEL wobble on the LC, and it is not at all an uncommon issue. (your dealer doesn't know about it because he is accustomed to using really stupid excuses for his lack of knowlege, instead of doing his homework).

1.) Rake & Trail. This is the physical relationship of the frame, neck angle, Triple tree depth, fork length and axel placement. It is NOT adjustable, and never changes. The LC has a rake and trail equasion that pushes the limits of good handling. We like that long, extended front end look, as opposed to the straight down look of stuffy touring bikes, but it comes at a price. Handling.

2.) Bridgestone tires. Ever notice that wiggly center tread running the perimeter of your front tire? Sucks!! Especially when you let off the gas and your bike naturally puts more pressure on the front tread. Its a shame your dealer didn't at least think to offer you a better handling tire as a replacement for the OEM. I have often said that if you want to dicker with your dealer on a new LC, forget about savings, and make him change both tires to Metzlers before you ever pick the bike up! Now, forget about what Suzuki says about tire pressure and put what Bridgestone says put in the tire. Anything less than 32lbs is going to allow that wiggly stuff too much bite on the road. Your cupping on the old tire was due to two things, low air pressure and the nature of that tire. The Bridgestone tire has a hard center band (the wiggly part) and a soft cornering band, and naturally, the cornering band will wear away faster than the center band, leaving not only a cupped tire, but a sharp "V" profile, which becomes a stark contrast to the flat profile of the wearing rear tire. This opposite shaped wear pattern will also cause your bike to oscillate in the curves as you get in the 6-8000 mile wear range, and it stays that way until you replace the tires.

3.) Weight distribution. A lesser issue, but works in conjunction with rake and trail and tire tread to create poor handling issues at times. Not much you can do to change the natural weight distribution of the bike and rider, but use extra caution when loading the LC up for long distance riding.

Even when all is right with the world and bike parts, the LC will still have a noticeable decel wobble if you release both hands from the bars. If only light grip with one hand stops or prevents the wobble, then nothing is wrong with your bike, but you really should consider Metzler 880 tires for your next round, or Dunlops, both better handling tires.

At best, you might be able to talk your dealer into a decent discount on a different tire, but I wouldn't count on it. His ignorance has shown at your expense, and that's a shame, but it ain't illegal, so there ain't much you can do.

Keep the front pressure up, tighten up the rear shock if you haven't already, and start saving your pennies for a GOOD set of tires, and in the mean time, keep both hands on the bars when you're slowing down!!

[blackie1491]

Now that sounds like someone who knows what he is talking about.
It is the type of advice I get from my preferred shop.
To bad my preferred shop has such a s****y sales dept.

[stp1971]

moccasin,,I am GLAD THAT YOU ARE HERE!!!!!!! What you have described is almost to the "T" what I have going on. I went down to the dealer and was able to duplicate it going up and down the road. But when it came time to ride by them I wasn't able to do it. So I will be picking the bike up Saturday and dealing with my tire problem. I have asked him to document that I came in and they were unable to replicate the problem.

Three questions for you. #1. What would be the preferred pressure for that tire?? The tires have like a 42 psi maximum on them #2. Could it be that now that I have 5200 miles on the back tire I am getting some different characteristics since the rear is now worn more than the front? #3. Is the brace I bought a good idea,,or is it a bad idea. Another dealer told me to change the air pressure and leave the brace off since it would be making it more rigid and he said the forks needed some flex.

I would feel ALOT better knowing that is just the way it is. If I take both hands off it wiggles/shimmies/wobbles. If I take my throttle hand off and leave my lefy hand on the bar, it still does it,, but it is manageable. If I leave both hands on the bars it doesn't really do it that bad, but I can feel a little,,almost like the sensation of a slightly warped rotor on a car when stopping.

If this is what you think is normal for this bike and the tires I have on it are also contributing to it,, then I WILL be saving the pennies for the Metzlers.

BY FAR you have given me the best answer I have heard on this and I DO appreciate it. I was just concerned because I have NEVER had a bike that did that before. But I did come from the enduro and dirt bike ranks.

You can PM me or email me or respond to this. Once again thanks and WELCOME to the forum!!!!!

[IntruderCruiser]

are you absolutely sure, nothing is bent and the tires have no irregular spots

[stp1971]

Well the dealer and the guy that mounted the tire both said the rim was fine. I put a new tire on the front. They said they cannot find anything out of place on the front end of the bike. The other guy I took it to the other week that mounted the tire said the forks looked straight, he couldn't tell anything wrong with it either. So I decided to take it to the dealer to have him look at it and see. So I guess I will go get it and ride it to see what I can find. If it continues and gets worse at least I will have documentation and if I change both front and rear tires to the Metzlers then what will be the excuse then.

I need to go ride another Intruder 1500 and a new C90 and see if they do any of that. I wonder what brand tires the C90's come with?

[blackie1491]

Take your tire gauge and check tire pressure and try a few lbs up and down, see if any handling diff. Just take it easy. A lot of people make you a daily read.
www.destinationhighways.com
They started out on the seatosky highway route here in BC
Ride Safe

[stp1971]

I'm going to take it nice and slow and see how it goes. Will definately up the air pressure to see how it acts though. Now accepting donations to the "Save the Lizard Riding Fund". This poor lizard has been seriously afflicted by ZD and thus the operating funds that are required to by essential items such as oil and tires has been sucked up by "Bling"!!! A serious side effect of ZD!!!!

[moccasin]

Originally Posted by stp1971

Three questions for you. #1. What would be the preferred pressure for that tire?? The tires have like a 42 psi maximum on them

The folks at Bridgestone actually recommend that pressure should be in the 34-38 range front and around 40 rear.

#2. Could it be that now that I have 5200 miles on the back tire I am getting some different characteristics since the rear is now worn more than the front?

You've probably got 3-5000 miles left on that rear tire, and as it continues to wear flat, you'll begin to notice more cornering issues, but it shouldn't cause a problem with the decel wobble.

#3. Is the brace I bought a good idea,,or is it a bad idea. Another dealer told me to change the air pressure and leave the brace off since it would be making it more rigid and he said the forks needed some flex.

Bracing the front end is a good thing if you're seriously into hard cornering. Stiff forks will give a more solid feel in the tight spots, but at the same time, they can't cushion the effects that are causing you concern. The bike may handle better with the brace, but you'll notice the decel wobble more.

Some LC owners have had good luck with tightening the neck bearings to reduce the wobble, but I would use extreme caution here. Tightening the bearings to reduce the wobble is masking the problem, and promoting more rapid bearing wear. If they are within tension spects (no neck play) then they should be left alone.

As much as it pains any of us to WASTE money, if you were to go out today and buy a new set of Dunlops or Metzler 880s, you'd think you just bought a new sport bike, and you'd never think twice about ditching your current tires with still good tread on them.

[Smurf]

DANG!

Welcome Moccasin, most of the time when I welcome someone to the forum, I tell them they will obtain a lot of information from all the members,,,,But in your case I would like to say we are benefiting from your presence in the forum.

Thanks for all the information, it is sound and fact based. What did you do for a living in your previous life? What ever it was, thanks for doing it.

Your Smurfin Awesome!

[stp1971]

Originally Posted by moccasin

The folks at Bridgestone actually recommend that pressure should be in the 34-38 front and around 40 rear.
I will try those pressures in them and see how they respond,,maybe splitting the difference on the front to 36 psi and move up and down to see respectively how it will handle and act. the rear at 40 psi,, well that isn't too far off from the factory setting so I will give it a shot.


You've probably got 3-5000 miles left on that rear tire, and as it continues to wear flat, you'll beging to notice more cornering issues, but it shouldn't cause a problem with the decel wobble.

I have noticed that oscillating feeling while cornering,,feel like it's loping along, hopefully the above pressures will remedy most of my concerns.

Bracing the front end is a good thing if you're seriously into hard cornering. Stiff forks will give a more solid feel in the tight spots, but at the same time, they can't cushion the effects that are causing you concern. The bike may handle better with the brace, but you'll notice the decel wobble more.

Cornering is fun,,but I do less twisty riding with that bike and if the front brace is only going to worsen that wobble condition then "Off with the brace",
I would rather not be a weeble wobbler. I have managed fine in the twisties and have not felt a need to "Feel" the road that much. I was just trying to eliminate that wobble. So I will run it without the brace,, NICE brace for sale!!!

Some LC owners have had good luck with tightening the neck bearings to reduce the wobble, but I would use extremem caution here. Tightening the bearings to reduce the wobble is masking the problem, and promoting more rapid bearing wear. If they are within tension spects (no neck play) then they should be left alone. They will be left alone,, I will try the jacking the bike up and try to pull the forks method fore and aft. If no play,, then no tighten.

As much as it pains any of us to WASTE money, if you were to go out today and buy a new set of Dunlops or Metzler 880s, you'd think you just bought a new sport bike, and you'd never think twice about ditching your current tires with still good tread on them.

If that will remedy 50% or better of my problems, then I do not see it as a waste. I would rather ride and feel good about it then save some dollars and feel crappy about the ride!!!

Thanks AGAIN!!!! I got you PM!!!!

[Everett Keith]

Can we go riding now?

[stp1971]

Originally Posted by Everett Keith

Can we go riding now?

Maybe so,,,gotta find something else to "Whine" about now I guess!!!!

Maybe we could invite "Talkathon",,,aka- Blah Blah Blah!!!!

[Everett Keith]

Life must go on my friend. Enjoy what you have when you have it. ROGER THAT?

[moccasin]

Originally Posted by Smurf

DANG!

Welcome Moccasin

Thanks for the kind words my friend! I'll try to drop in here more often when I can. Looks like lots of good peeps here!

Guess its time for me to get my avatar and sig file setup, eh? I hope this is not against any guidlines.

[stp1971]

I have no problems with it. I am sure Trapper, Louis, and Uncle Bob wouldn't either. That is what makes this forum a great forum. Whatever it takes to help each other out with advice, info, or just having fun is cool. We got some great folks on this forum and the moderators are cool too,,,just don't brag too much!!!!

(As I go running for cover again) LOL!!!!! Spare me Zuki Gods!!!!!

[moccasin]

Originally Posted by stp1971

Thanks AGAIN!!!! I got you PM!!!!

Got a note that says your inbox is full and can't except any more messages.

Originally Posted by stp1971

What part of the country are you in? I was just asking caused I picked up on the "ain't" mostly a Southern thing historically!!!!

I'm just a little more north of you, near Montgomery Alabama. You are just a little north of a town of my namesake, Colquitt, Georgia. My ancestors settled there, then half of them (us) migrated across the border to south Alabama.

Some folks say I tawk lack a redneck! HAHA!!

[blackie1491]

Welcome moccasin
Thanks for your input.

[stp1971]

Originally Posted by moccasin

Got a note that says your inbox is full and can't except any more messages.



I'm just a little more north of you, near Montgomery Alabama. You are just a little north of a town of my namesake, Colquitt, Georgia. My ancestors settled there, then half of them (us) migrated across the border to south Alabama.

Some folks say I tawk lack a redneck! HAHA!!

Hey that's cool. I cleaned house. You are about two to two and a half hours from me. I live exactly in the middle between Atlanta and the Alabama state line off of I-20. Will have to meet up and ride sometime. I like going over to Cheaha State Park,,good ride over there. Anniston Biker night is August 20th!!!! Lots o' chickies there I bet!!!! Should be a good turnout!!!

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by stp1971

I have no problems with it. I am sure Trapper, Louis, and Uncle Bob wouldn't either. That is what makes this forum a great forum. Whatever it takes to help each other out with advice, info, or just having fun is cool. We got some great folks on this forum and the moderators are cool too,,,just don't brag too much!!!!

(As I go running for cover again) LOL!!!!! Spare me Zuki Gods!!!!!

RUN FORREST RUN!

[moccasin]

Originally Posted by stp1971

I live exactly in the middle between Atlanta and the Alabama state line off of I-20. Will have to meet up and ride sometime. I like going over to Cheaha State Park,,good ride over there. Anniston Biker night is August 20th!!!! Lots o' chickies there I bet!!!! Should be a good turnout!!!

Oops!1 Silly mapping software! I looked up "Douglasvill" and got "Douglas Crossroads", much farther south. Sorry 'bout the poor geography.

We get to CHeaha as often as possible, although the road crews have pretty much destroyed the 281 stretch from Hwy 49 all the way up to Heflin with VERY loose gravel pavement!! . We get over to Warm Springs, GA a few times a year also for lunch at the Bulloch House. Nice ride.