What the law about kids?

[skenn158]

I have a five year old that LOVES to ride around the block on the back of my new C50. I strap a long weightlifting belt around the two of us so she's snugged up behind me, got passenger floorboards so her shoes don't touch the pipes and put a little cushion between her and the backrest to wedge her in a little better. We don't go over 20mph and she hangs on to me very tight, the problem is the ex wife,..... now she says she's going to call the police if I let the daughter on the bike at all... I called the dealer to ask about the law concerning that here in Fl and they said that strangely the law really doesn't specify, I called the local police and they couldn't really say either only that so long as I'm not doing anything 'unsafe' it's OK, but the woman I spoke with couldn't give me specifics either. Does anyone have any experience with this?
SK

[tlwisner]

Your ex is a b!tch. You're not doing anything illegal or unsafe. Tell her to call the police...

[bat4255]

This was talked about on another forum I belong to.
It's a scooter forum, but same thing applies.
The consensus seems to be, "the passinger needs to be able rest their feet on pegs or floorboards".
Hope it helps


http://burgmanusa.com/ipw-web/bullet...highlight=ride

[GLW]

A 5 year old is hardly capable of making a mature or rational decision about her own safety.

You did not say if your ex was the child's mother and if she had custody.

If she has majority custody and you persist in defying her wishes in regards to something like letting a small child onto a motorcycle, you might very well find yourself in court and end up with a court order mandating supervised visits or worse.

While it may be fun, what happens to a 5 year old if you lay a 500 lb bike down on them...or if you are both thrown but you end up rolling over on her...

Riding two up is a big responsibility. You are 100% responsible for the safety of a person that can give their consent.

I would submit that such a young child is hardly capable of giving such consent. I would also submit that doing so overriding your ex's objections is unwise. BOTH parents must agree on things of this magnitude or there will always be trouble.

[tlwisner]

Originally Posted by GLW

A 5 year old is hardly capable of making a mature or rational decision about her own safety.

While it may be fun, what happens to a 5 year old if you lay a 500 lb bike down on them...or if you are both thrown but you end up rolling over on her...

What happens if the 5 year old is in a car accident? Gets bitten by a dog? Etc? I don't question a father's respect for the safety and well being of his child. It's not a question of a 5 year old making a decision, it's a question of a father making a decision. There is nothing inherently unsafe about riding on a motorcycle in spite of what many profess.

Now, if the father was out speeding and stunting or doing other dangerous and / or illegal things, the mother would have a valid concern.

[Pinhy]

Not in response to the majority topic here, so a little OT, but with respect to a bike being more dangerous than a car.

I like what was said on 2 Wheel Tuesday this past week. A pilot of a F-16 Falcon said there really is no more danger in riding a bike, driving a car or flying and F-16. If you never get in an accident you're fine The only difference is the severity of the results if you do get into an accident.

[Trapper]

Yeah, what Pinhy said. The results of a minor mistake are much different. I've learned from this forum that a lot of things can go wrong at slow speeds.

[c50tiger]

Ok - from my perspective as a father of a 7 year old who loves Daddy's motorcycle... I only let her ride around the block with me. That's about all the attention span she has. Does my wife like it? Not much. But that's her. So where do you draw the line? 10 years old? 12? 6? For me, so long as the kids got a helmet that actually fits and can reach the pegs/floorboards (and keep is/her feet planted on them) it should be ok.

From my perspective as a divorced father with joint custody of our 13 year old daughter: You got to tread lightly. I've bent on a number of issues just to prevent things from getting nasty. Not that I thought I was wrong... it just wasn't a major issue and it was better to avoid having a big conflict over it. Then again, if she's just looking for an opportunity to be a b!tch, telll her to go pound sand up her a$$.

As far as kids on bikes... both of my nephews were racing dirtbikes by the time they were 6. They had 3 and 4 wheelers when they were 4. Granted, I thought that was a bit young, but my sister and brother-in-law called those shots, and both of them are pretty dang good riders, now.

[SuzukiGirl1]

My boyfriend has a 5 year old and let's him ride on the scooter with him. He always wears his helmet and goggles (it's a dirtbike-type helmet). He's too little to ride on the back of the Bandit, but of course the Bandit doesn't have a back rest, or floorboards either.

The law in MN says that the passenger has to be able to touch the pegs/floorboards, and that's about as specific as it gets.

[GLW]

"What happens if the 5 year old is in a car accident? "

Ever heard of state laws requiring safety seats? In California, car seats are mandatory up to a certain weight and height...AND then age. I expect that such tightening of the laws for children in cars will continue...So...your point is immaterial.

I DARE you to try to convince a judge and/or jury that a motorcycle is as safe as a car in a court of law against a competent attorney. Not bloody likely.

"Gets bitten by a dog?"

Typically, if a child is bitten by a dog that is known to bite, said dog is put down...and the owner may be subject to civil or criminal prosecution. Now, if said dog is something like what has happened in Houston, pit bulls in a group or two...dogs are put down and owner may be in jail...

" it's a question of a father making a decision. "

AGAINST the wishes of the Mother...who probably has majority custody. In any case, ANY parent that makes a potentially life or death decision without consensus of the other parent is in most cases being insensitive...and probably irresponsible.

"There is nothing inherently unsafe about riding on a motorcycle in spite of what many profess."

Riding by oneself...debateable... Riding in an urban environment...WRONG. Take a look at posts that talk about the "cagers" that almost or did take a rider out. I NEVER go out for a ride in Houston where I don't have at least one SUV that does something truly stupid...one reason I don't go far into town.

"if the father was out speeding and stunting or doing other dangerous and / or illegal things, the mother would have a valid concern."

In YOUR estimation. However, I doubt you could find too many in Children's Protective Services or in a legal field that would agree. Basically, if a marriage is intact, this is a BIG marital problem (but then, aren't a large number of child-rearing issues). However, in a situation with a divorce and custody issues, it becomes a legal issue.

All it takes to have a really big problem is for the ex with majority custody to take it up with her lawyer. Without too much effort in most states, he could end up with a restraining order stating that his visitation rights would be revoked should the child get within 50 feet of his motorcycle.

The ex has court ordered rights. In many cases, the rights of the father are severely limited. It really doesn't matter what he may think as to child-rearing once there is a judge and a lawyer or two in the mix.

[axel_2078]

GLW, do you also go by the name Madura?

[trini0]

Since the original poster is from Florida, this is what I found
at their site ->
http://casey.hsmv.state.fl.us/intran...fm?cat=6&faq=3

[GLW]

Nope...only GLW

The link previous stated about endangering a minor. Should his ex have a good lawyer and be REALLY predisposed to it (be it revenge/anger about the marriage or whatever.... it is NOT at all uncommon for a couple to use their kids as weapons in divorces...both before and after the court orders come), she could get him on those grounds.

Given that courts are not always kind to those of us on two wheels...or to fathers, I would say he should be very accomodating on this score....regardless of how much of a pain in the rear he may think she is being.

I had a friend here in Houston that almost went to prison over a custody battle that was eventually thrown out of court. His ex was out for revenge and had filed sexual abuse charges against him (that were totally disproven in court FINALLY). He had moved out of state because she was making his life hell...and they literally arrested him sitting in a restaurant reading his bible.....

They took their sweet time in extraditing him from one state to another. In fact, they came just barely within the maximum allowable time for the extradition.

It cost him around $50K for attorney fees to prove he was innocent...and when the judge finally threw the case out, there were indications that he could have sued the prosecutor and others for misconduct...(they wanted that all important conviction record to go up).

So... given that, I would definitely NOT piss off an ex in regards to a REAL if maybe marginal case of endangerment.

[RG]

Skenn158,

Pick your battles buddy. It's been my experience that you never know what is going to happen when you go to court. Personnally I don't think riding two up with a five year old is worth the fight, no matter what safety precautions you take.

In this day and age, with traffic the way it is, I feel I risk my life every time I take the bike out. I do not want to risk my daughter's life.

[skenn158]

Kids, what to do? Let them enjoy things, or wrap them in bubble wrap and hide them under the bed to keep them "safe". I'm very good at windsurfing, hang gliding and motorcycles and although my daughter rides on the front of a large trainer windsurfing board with me (if we crash she only gets wet) I certainly wouldn't take her up in a hang glider. Simple common sense, I thank everyone for the input, it's a sad day that so many kids are cheated out of things in life because of parents squabbling over silly things and trying to gain the upper ground by attempting to bring a child’s safety into question. In the end, I nor any of us would endanger our kids, yet I passed a mini van the other day with "kids on board" signs in every window, a child safety seat in almost every seat (not the drivers) and the woman driving was not only guzzling a beer, but applying makeup while cruising down the highway at 70mph.... yet motorcycles are unsafe... crazy world..

[inspiron]

And it's getting more dangerous every day ... I just saw a posting in a Swiss forum about the new BMW blue-tooth enabled helmets. Yea, thats what I need - as if I'm not busy enough monitoring traffic, looking for surface hazards and children and animals jumping in front of me, and drunk drivers out to get me - I could be talking to someone on the phone

[tlwisner]

Originally Posted by GLW

I had a friend here in Houston that almost went to prison over a custody battle that was eventually thrown out of court. His ex was out for revenge and had filed sexual abuse charges against him.

I find it odd that you would equate a legal and safe activity like riding a motorcycle with sexual abuse. I suspect you are a troll...

[GLW]

Suspect wrong then....

The point...that you entirely missed...is that when a person writes something about a disagreement with an ex over a child, you are very probably looking at only the tip of an iceberg.

Divorces can and often do bring out the worst in people. This WORST can also carry over long beyond the court settlement.

This is what happened to my friend. His ex was having second thoughts about their breakup...even though they had been divorced for over 2 years. He had moved on. He had a new girlfriend. They were living together. She had kids...they were thinking about marriage.

He had an ex-girlfriend as well. All AFTER the divorce. He does NOT play around when married.

The ex-wife approached the ex-girlfriend about revenge on him. The ex-girlfriend thought she was joking...until it all started. Her testimony was one of the ones that the prosecutors tried to suppress.

The child he was supposed to have mollested had been denied visitation rights with him for over a year. Prior to that, his visitation with the child had been 100% supervised with either the mother or other family members...and the ONLY one that would NOT testify to that in court was the mother (the ex)...even though there were witnesses.

The child's testimony was in words way beyond the age level of the child and NOT in the child's normal speech. The independent psychologist was willing to testify that there was obvious coaching and that the incidents were most likely NOT true. The ex's story changed and she began to include the current and former girlfriend in what was described to the court as an adult and children orgy. ALL proven false.

But...the ex's accusations were taken seriously and he was sent through the legal system over and over (there was even a problem in that his attorney (a female) had come up against the prosecutor (a female) several times and had won every time...so the prosecutor had an ax to grind there...and things did NOT free up until the case was transferred to a different prosecutor.

And what might you ask does all of this have to do with the motorcycle question?

Well, if an ex can go out for blood and go as far as that one did on NO foundation, what can happen with a pissed off ex who can make a case (no matter how slight) with some merit?

Father's have very limited rights in child custody situations. That is NOT how it is supposed to be but is how it is.

As a previous post stated "Pick your battles..." This is one I would NOT recommend.

Now, why is it that anyone that disagrees with someone gets labelled a TROLL.

Suspect all you want...I could care less.

[Trapper]

I think playing it safe in situations like custody battles and motorcycles is sound advice. Interesting post GLW, shows how far some people will go for vengance. Thanks for sharing.

[Hunter]

Getting too deep into thought........... If you are a loving parent, you hope that no mater what you want to do or have done, you hope that it is or was correct,,,,,,you hope that you make the proper choices when raising your kids. Just think about what could happen and could you deal with the results for the rest of your life??????????????????????