New rider question - Motorcycle-Journal Forums

dlrshort · 04-08-2007, 07:07 PM

Does a fuel injection system offer any great advantage over carburator fuel systems in bikes of nearly the same CC's? For example the Boulevard C50 and the Honda spirit 750 are almost the same in terms of displacement but the c50 has fuel injection. Is it worth the extra money?

Dave S.

**Clint** · 04-08-2007, 08:15 PM

For most situations, no. You get slightly better fuel economy, slightly cleaner tailpipe emissions, and simpler cold startup (no choke to hassle with). Otherwise, there's no great advantage. Mostly you see EFI for tighter emissions restrictions, otherwise the manufacturers wouldn't bother with some bikes.

peter-reebok · 04-08-2007, 09:16 PM

No choke is the first thing you find.
An EFI setup can allow for more settings and control than idle and flat out, which are the only two places a carb can really be optimised.

It also allows a computer to set it up, which on a carb, is a dark art.

Simply put, it takes input from various sensors, and then determines how much fuel to add at any time.
At present, bikes have less sensors than cars, so there is still a way to go before we actually achieve optimum performance.
They also operate in two loop settings, open and closed.
In a closed loop setting, the fuel is constantly computed against the sensors.
In an open loop system, a 'map' of settings is applied, and the closest fit is used to get the fuel setting.

Closed loop is better. but requires more sensors, and more cost - so is not present in most bikes yet.

peter-reebok · 04-08-2007, 09:20 PM

Forgot to add - I am NOT a guru on this subject - so If I got it around the wrong way with open and closed loop - please feel free to educate me - I wont sulk in the corner.!

Jammer · 04-09-2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlrshort

Does a fuel injection system offer any great advantage over carburator fuel systems in bikes of nearly the same CC's? For example the Boulevard C50 and the Honda spirit 750 are almost the same in terms of displacement but the c50 has fuel injection. Is it worth the extra money?

Dave S.

I agree with the others here. Most situations no. It is nice like on my Gixxer not to have to pull out the choke..but that's really no big deal. I would look more at the looks and ride of the bike.

Sgt Mike · 04-09-2007, 07:54 AM

It was to me. No warm up time required, start it up, wait a few seconds for the oil to circulate, put it gear and go. FI don't cost that much more but gives you more IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlrshort

Does a fuel injection system offer any great advantage over carburator fuel systems in bikes of nearly the same CC's? For example the Boulevard C50 and the Honda spirit 750 are almost the same in terms of displacement but the c50 has fuel injection. Is it worth the extra money?

Dave S.

palanon · 04-09-2007, 08:02 AM

I haven't owed an FI bike but it would be nice to have something you didn't have to tear down the carbs on.

I'm thinking of doing some track days and maybe some amateur racing. I'm leaning toward a 98 or newer GSXR because they are FI.

**Clint** · 04-09-2007, 08:11 AM

Why do you have to "tear down" carbs? Changing jets is about a 30 minute project, and costs a fraction of what maps do. You should only have to do it once.

I'm not sure what track days have to do with it.

palanon · 04-09-2007, 08:37 AM

When I do a good cleaning on carbs, I take them apart. If I can find the rebuild kits, I usually use those. Gaskets, jets, needles etc. It's no big deal, just time consuming and tedious at times. I haven't had to do it with the Bandit since it's fairly new and my primary ride. The older bikes need it done every few years.

Track days at NHIS are strict on safety and bike prep. There are only 2 track days this year. I'd like to take the two day class and do the rookie race to get my license. If I can do this it will be only 4 days of riding. The rest of the time the bike would be at the shop. If I get an FI bike I'm hoping that I can avoid messing with the carbs each spring.

**Clint** · 04-09-2007, 08:48 AM

I've taken my bike's carbs apart exactly once since buying it in 2002. That was to rejet for the Holeshot pipe. I think you're a bit misinformed about modern carbs. They don't require what you've described. Poor winter storage is the only thing that would lead to that nowdays. Just ride!

palanon · 04-09-2007, 09:03 AM

Your right, My bandit won't need that kind of work unless I install a jet kit. The newest Bike I have after that is a 1983 CB 900. I rebuilt the carbs when I bought it and don't expect to do them for a few years. It doesn't get the miles the Bandit gets so time takes it's toll.

On a track bike, I was thinking about shellac and corrosion.

04-08-2007, 07:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
dlrshort Seat Tester Joined: Apr 2007 Bike: '07 Harley Softail Deluxe Location: NJ Posts: 65	New rider question Does a fuel injection system offer any great advantage over carburator fuel systems in bikes of nearly the same CC's? For example the Boulevard C50 and the Honda spirit 750 are almost the same in terms of displacement but the c50 has fuel injection. Is it worth the extra money? Dave S.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
05 C50 11.500 miles brake question and speedo question	bloomfieldrich	Volusia/C50 Getaway	4	03-09-2007 10:01 AM
question from a new rider	budmn	The Paddock	5	01-12-2007 10:00 AM
M50 rider with a C50 Question	vhmike73	Volusia/C50 Getaway	2	07-31-2006 09:22 PM
New Rider Here............	marinefamily5	Suzuki	1	03-26-2006 12:51 AM
Savage 650 small rider question	jdh3000	Cruisers	7	06-14-2004 11:09 AM

04-08-2007, 09:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
peter-reebok Wants Better Weather Joined: Oct 2006 Bike: was Suzuki M50 - Now M109 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 672	No choke is the first thing you find. An EFI setup can allow for more settings and control than idle and flat out, which are the only two places a carb can really be optimised. It also allows a computer to set it up, which on a carb, is a dark art. Simply put, it takes input from various sensors, and then determines how much fuel to add at any time. At present, bikes have less sensors than cars, so there is still a way to go before we actually achieve optimum performance. They also operate in two loop settings, open and closed. In a closed loop setting, the fuel is constantly computed against the sensors. In an open loop system, a 'map' of settings is applied, and the closest fit is used to get the fuel setting. Closed loop is better. but requires more sensors, and more cost - so is not present in most bikes yet.

04-08-2007, 09:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
peter-reebok Wants Better Weather Joined: Oct 2006 Bike: was Suzuki M50 - Now M109 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 672	Forgot to add - I am NOT a guru on this subject - so If I got it around the wrong way with open and closed loop - please feel free to educate me - I wont sulk in the corner.!

04-09-2007, 08:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
palanon No Significant Other Joined: Apr 2006 Bike: 2003 Bandit 1200S Location: Newmarket, NH Posts: 2,314	I haven't owed an FI bike but it would be nice to have something you didn't have to tear down the carbs on. I'm thinking of doing some track days and maybe some amateur racing. I'm leaning toward a 98 or newer GSXR because they are FI.

04-09-2007, 08:37 AM	#9 (permalink)
palanon No Significant Other Joined: Apr 2006 Bike: 2003 Bandit 1200S Location: Newmarket, NH Posts: 2,314	When I do a good cleaning on carbs, I take them apart. If I can find the rebuild kits, I usually use those. Gaskets, jets, needles etc. It's no big deal, just time consuming and tedious at times. I haven't had to do it with the Bandit since it's fairly new and my primary ride. The older bikes need it done every few years. Track days at NHIS are strict on safety and bike prep. There are only 2 track days this year. I'd like to take the two day class and do the rookie race to get my license. If I can do this it will be only 4 days of riding. The rest of the time the bike would be at the shop. If I get an FI bike I'm hoping that I can avoid messing with the carbs each spring.

04-09-2007, 09:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
palanon No Significant Other Joined: Apr 2006 Bike: 2003 Bandit 1200S Location: Newmarket, NH Posts: 2,314	Your right, My bandit won't need that kind of work unless I install a jet kit. The newest Bike I have after that is a 1983 CB 900. I rebuilt the carbs when I bought it and don't expect to do them for a few years. It doesn't get the miles the Bandit gets so time takes it's toll. On a track bike, I was thinking about shellac and corrosion.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)