How much engine do I *really* need

[djpenton]

Hiya folks,

Over the past couple of years my interests in motorcycles has grown significantly. My brother purchased a TL1000S two years ago, I tried it out and was hooked! My father in law has a '96 virago 1100 and I've ridden this bike and it was ok. It was pretty ugly, however. The power was ok...nothing to write home about.

Now here's my question: I'm thinking about purchasing a bike this year, but I am unable to ride for a few months and I've been itching all winter to find out something which my wife brought up...how much displacement do I really need? I am 340lbs or so and my wife is less than 160 lbs or so. We'd like to do some touring together eventually, but mostly this is my ride for commuting and highway travels. Oh yeah, I'm waaay up in Calgary Alberta...I love the mountains.

So there you have my life story...ideas?

[peter-reebok]

Two words with very different answers

Want

or

need?

Nothing beats displacement. However.
if we were all serious, a 125 will provide transportation.
I lived in the Phillipines and Indonesia for 6 years, and a whole family of 5 or 6 and their shopping can be transported on a 125.

Would I buy one though - no!

An 800 cruiser will do the job very well, a M50 will keep up with a road king all day for example.
But a 1600 cruiser, or an 1800 - Power is everything.

[Newizuke]

Three words of advice ...

Bigger
is
Better

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by Newizuke

Three words of advice ...

Bigger
is
Better

Are you saying that you would be better off on a bike that is capable of topping out at over 180mph?

[blackie1491]

It is not only displacement but also gross weight less the wet weight of the bike.
That is the carrying weight so check the bikes out, they all have the info available. Just ask a sales rep., he should provide with the info.

You will be surprised, the Virago are bikes with carrying capacity exceeding their own weight. There are large bikes that have less. To the weight of yourself, your wife, you have to add the gear you are using, the add ons and and luggage you carry. You can change suspension but gains are small. Increase tire pressure.

The C50 manual reads rider, passenger, riding gear, accessories and cargo must never exceed load capacity of 206 KG (454 lbs).
If you are riding a C50T or SE, like me, you got to add the windshield, backrest, saddle bags into the weight. There is a safety margin built in but if you start at 500 lbs before all the rest I think you should look at another. I do not know the capacity of the C90. You should check on the Kawi Nomad for carrying capacity.

DrBob, or others may be better able to help you.

Good luck.

[Rickster]

Other than a maybe a Gold Wing, I don't think you are going to find any bikes that are rated to carry more than 500 pounds. Even my Road King is only rated at 526 pounds, and that includes gas, and oil, about 45 pounds topped off. Leaves you with only about 475 pounds for gear, and riders.

By the way "blackie" i don't agree with you about increasing the tire pressure. A few pounds, maybe, surely no more than 5.

[omegajim]

You have to remember the Virago 1100 is not built for speed, it is built for torque. To appreciate torque, put the bike in 5th, slow way down and hold the throttle open. The bike will bog some, but nothing like a "peaky" 750.

Essentially, you shift less with a bigger motor because you can; shifting isn't so necessary because you have enough torque on tap to get you moving again.

It boils down to how much you have to spend and are willing to borrow to get what you want. Get to around 9k and I don't believe there is a bad choice. It becomes very subjective.

[Uncle B]

Buying a bike?
Jim McCraw/Popular Mechanics /July 2005
I think this is how you borrow what someone else says.

Nobody really has to buy a motorcycle. But these days plenty of people want to. And you may be one of them. Before you plunk down your money, swing your leg over the seat and feel that warm breeze of freedom, you need to resolve several critical issues.

AM I AN EXPERINCED RIDER? Riding a motorcycle is undeniably fun. It also can be lethal if done wrong. Therefore, before you even consider buying any kind of motorcycle, assess your skills and abilities. If you’re a rank novice, you need to learn how to ride. If you’ve been away from motorcycles for awhile, you should take a refresher course. And if you don’t already have a motorcycle license, you’re going to need one to ride legally. The best course of action is to go to a riding school.

HOW DO I INTEND TO RIDE? The kind of riding you’re interested in fairly well dictates the type of bike you should shop for. Conversely, the kind of bike you ride largely defines your motorcycling world and lifestyle. So besides selecting the motorcycle based on its mechanical and performance attributes, consider what circles you’ll likely be riding in—so to speak. If you don’t think of yourself as a racer or a biker in the WILD ONE vein, and you would be comfortable at, say, an Eagles reunion concert, consider a traditional bike, on the other hand, tend to indulge in extreme activities—think THE FAST AND THE FERIOUS, only on two wheels. If you want to hang with the hip-hop crowd, maybe you’re a sport-bike candidate. Folks who enjoy the touring lifestyle tend to be older—often retirees—and are in on kind of hurry when they watch the scenery go by on all sides. If an RV lifestyle or dinner theater appeals to you, so might a touring bike. But if you want to put some adventure into a long daily commute, you may be cruiser-bike material.

HOW MUCH SHOULD I SPEND? It’s a discretionary purchase—the mortgage comes first, okay? Depending on the type of motorcycle you choose, you can expect to pay anywhere from $5000.00 to $25000.00 for a new bike. Motorcycle dealers, like auto dealers will do what they can to help you with financing options, and many offer used bikes as well.

DO I REALLY NEED A NEW BIKE? For many riders, a used motorcycle is a better option. Besides being more affordable than a new bike, a used one is a sensible transitional machine. You may find that the bike you bought to get you back in the game is somehow lacking after you’ve spent some serious time on it. And the reality is, sooner or later your first motorcycle is going to hit the pavement. There’s no reason that the bike you ding up needs to be an expensive one right out the crate. Give yourself a few months to get comfortable—then you’ll be more than ready for a new set of wheels.

IS THIS THE BIKE FOR ME? As you shop, consider your body type: if you cannot put both feet flat on the ground when the bike is upright, it’s too tall for you, period. Also, if this is your first bike, or you’ve never ridden anything scarily fast, don’t even look at a high-performance bike. That said, if you see yourself using the bike primarily as daily transportation, consider a standard, or traditional, bike. If you used to ride years ago, these will look familiar, but feel better thanks to electric starters, fuel injection and disc brakes. If your commute is a long one, you typically do it with a passenger and you want a bit more style, the next logical choice is a cruiser. If you intend to spend many hours and miles in the saddle with a passenger setting behind you, you need a touring bike. For a little more performance in a touring bike, there’s a subset called sport/touring. If you primarily want to straighten curvy roads, your needs will be best met with a sportbike. If you want a basic commuter that can keep going when the pavement doesn’t, look at a dual-purpose bike: a standard bike with extra ground clearance and knobby tires.

WHAT ELSE DO I NEED? Before you start riding, you’ll require a helmet, jacket, gloves, boots, rain suit and, possibly, dedicated eyewear—especially if you wear glasses. Don’t stint when you buy your riding outfit: should you ever need it, it’s all there is between you and the hard, coarse pavement. Buy a helmet that meets both DOT {Department of Transportation} and Snell Memorial Foundation’s current safety standards, nothing less.
Then, after you’re fully trained and equipped, prepare for adversity. Expose yourself to what you’re bound to face eventually when riding in a safe and controlled environment. While you may never intend to ride in the rain, sooner or later you’re going to get caught in a shower. Go to an empty parking lot or deserted stretch of road on a rainy morning to get yourself used to the feel of wet pavement and how the bike reacts to breaking, accelerating and swerving in the wet. These are skills you don’t want to have to learn on the job.

This is your first bike, not your last.
Motorcycle riders are reputed to change bikes, on average, once every two to three years. If this is the case the bike you learn to ride on will not be in your garage in a few years time anyway whether you buy it new or used. You're going to sell it regardless to get something different, newer, more powerful, more comfortable, etc.

[blackie1491]

I looked at an article by Progressive suspension and they state heavy duty springs do not increase gross vehicle weights but only effect handling and ride quality.

So you should really look for a bike that will readily accept the weight.

[intimid8er]

We've all forgotten to mention the Boss Hoss.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by blackie1491

I looked at an article by Progressive suspension and they state heavy duty springs do not increase gross vehicle weights but only effect handling and ride quality.

So you should really look for a bike that will readily accept the weight.

I think the tires have a lot to do with the GVW.

[djpenton]

Thanks everyone for your responses. GVW is something I had almost forgotten about, and definatly need to think about. I'm thinking this is my priority over engine size/power.

I guess what I was asking was when touring, would we have enough power to safely merge onto highways and such with a rider and (light) gear.

Once again, thanks for your replies. You all have very insightful answers and this forum is rich with answers to questions I had thought about for a while!

[dcstrng]

50hp will get any cruiser down the road, assuming there are enough cubes to pull 60-70#s or torque... 100hp (GW-esque) when very-low RPM torque is less... but as for "need" 40hp min., probably 50hp if you contemplate hauling a pillion with the usual extra gear... 60-65hp is probably more usefull if one rides two-lanes a lot (restricted passing space), but I've gotten by with 750++ pound bikes on around 55hp for decades... and done nicely

[Danr]

Used GoldWing or Valkyrie. I'm trying to be honest here with you at 340 +160 and luggage you wont be happy with anything less.

IMHO but honest opinion.

[POE-BOY SAMICH]

Blackie mentioned the Kawi Nomad and that's a beauty of a bike. However, the GVWR leaves around 475 for riders & gear after reductions are taken for bike weight and fluids. So that leaves the Nomad out.

Now, no one has mentioned Victory's Kingpin Tourer. This bike has approx GVWR of 525 once you take away the weight of the bike and fluids. This may be an option for you dj. ---Not to mention, Victory had great results in JD Powers recent reviews.

[hammersfan]

Originally Posted by Danr

Used GoldWing or Valkyrie. I'm trying to be honest here with you at 340 +160 and luggage you wont be happy with anything less.

IMHO but honest opinion.

I was surprised to read in David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling " that the Valkyrie has not got a real high carrying capacity even though it is a large displacement bike.

[djpenton]

Alrighty, looks like i am being too optimistic about the touring thing with my wife for now, haha. I think I'm prolly going to start with a C50 or an 1100 v-star (or something along those lines) and forget the touring for now. My wife said she would be interested in riding her own bike down the road...so I think that we will go this route instead.

Wow, thanks a lot for all your input! Now, if anyone's bored, I LOVE to talk bikes...so keep posting! Thoughts on C50/vn800 versus 1100 v-star?

[GregR1]

Originally Posted by djpenton

Wow, thanks a lot for all your input! Now, if anyone's bored, I LOVE to talk bikes...so keep posting! Thoughts on C50/vn800 versus 1100 v-star?

the yamaha-star bikes have the UGLIEST fuel tanks. when i sit on them, it's like there's this giant cow pattie in front of me. a truly '%%%%ty' design. i'd sooner buy a low-end harley sportster 1200 than a yamaha-star 1100 / 1300 (and i'd have better resale value to boot)

the m50 is more comfortable than the v900 custom to me, and the handlebars have slightly better controls and ergonomics, but the weaker motor combined with the use of (inefficient) shaft drive keep me away from the m50. i don't like the c50 / v900 classic, mostly due to the handlebar shape.

[POE-BOY SAMICH]

Originally Posted by GregR1

i'd sooner buy a low-end harley sportster 1200 than a yamaha-star 1100 / 1300

Dang!
You must really hate the yamaha's


Now, if you've decided to be a solo rider for a while djpenton, that opens up a whole lotta nice bikes to ya'.

Best thing you can do is sit on them at your area stealers and find out what best "fits" you. CC's may be close but you'll be surprised how different some bikes of similar size are when it comes to comfort. Different strokes, and all that, you know...

Also, since 2-up is maybe your eventual goal, that should also change your idea of whether or not to buy used. In other words, you know the bike you buy right now is a temporary until you're ready for 2-up. Plus consider buying a bike your wife can learn on too if she's going to eventually ride her own. She can inherit your bike when your ready to move up.

[Rickster]

The two bikes you mentioned in your first post, the ones you have some experience with, are not "cruisers", they are more "standards". So now I am wondering if you plan on staying with the type of bike you have experience with, or if you would rather go with a cruiser? If you are thinking you might want to stay with the standards, you should take a real close look at the V Stroms.