What's wrong with Harleys?

[frostbitevinnie]

Originally Posted by cardude720

well where do you live then? I wanna move there!

St. Cloud, MN. Just fooling with you about So. Cal. Well, maybe not. I grew up in So. Cal and moved here when I was 25. I love it here and have never had any desire to move back even though I still visit my folks a couple times a year.

Dudes, are we gonna be able to fit in a SW, WI run???

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by cardude720

Hey Rick,

First of all the post asked what was wrong with Harleys. I responded with what was wrong with the only Harley that I know of.

#1 the bank does not own my bike, I'm 19 years old and have been working ever since I can remeber to pay for my own car and bike (haha the bank may not own my bike, but they own me.... I work for them!) Just because the bank owns YOURS does not mean that the bank owns MINE. I am NOT you.

#2 Yes I always check on my bike & car all the time.

#3 Yes I own a harley shirt (I got it for free), and I do wear it.

#4 Many people ask me if my bike (a Suzuki) is a Harley, and I take that as a compliment because Harleys are good looking bikes.

#5, I love wendys. If you cannot appreciate the Wendy's dude then.... oh wait, do you have wendys out there?

and lastly, relax, smile. live life.

Excelant post. Very commendable for a 19 year old to be debt free, hopefully like me, you'll be able to say the same thing when your my age.

Based on this post I get the impresson that you would like us to believe that you are a responsible and clear thinking young man, and based on this post alone I do get that impression, but I start to get confused when I go back and read your last couple of posts, because it just doesn't seem possible that, (#1) a 19 year old that is interested in motorcycles only knows of one Harley, and (#2) as a clear thinking dude you would be willing to state "haha yea, i think that answers the quesiton "what's wrong with harleys?".... wouldn't you say?" simply because the one Harley you know of has an oil leaking issue, as I said that makes as much sense as me saying "all white dudes are gay because I saw one with orange pig tails". FYI, by gay i mean strange.
Any way if you want this dude (me) to listen to and attach any value to your opinion on Harley's, your going to have to come up with a better argument.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by frostbitevinnie

St. Cloud, MN. Just fooling with you about So. Cal. Well, maybe not. I grew up in So. Cal and moved here when I was 25. I love it here and have never had any desire to move back even though I still visit my folks a couple times a year.

Dudes, are we gonna be able to fit in a SW, WI run???

Do you have a date in mind? I'm still good to go till the white stuff starts covering the roads.

[tricker]

Around Ontario is really nice... but we'd have to be really careful of the 4 footed critters flying around to just throw that out there

[omegajim]

yes, a moose could really ruin your day.

[tricker]

Originally Posted by omegajim

yes, a moose could really ruin your day.

not that ontario.. the other ontario

[frostbitevinnie]

Originally Posted by Rickster

Do you have a date in mind? I'm still good to go till the white stuff starts covering the roads.

A fairly warm one would be nice. Pick a warm day and I'm there.

[Rickster]

This time of year a warm day could be hard to conjure up.

Adam, where is this Ontario your talking about?

[frostbitevinnie]

Originally Posted by Rickster

This time of year a warm day could be hard to conjure up.

Adam, where is this Ontario your talking about?

Yeah, where is Ontario?? Nothing on da Google.

[cardude720]

first of i like to know that we can have a clear discussion with out arguing/bantering. Read this Harley Davidson @ Pissed Consumer (if you have the time ) I know that their could be complaints about anything but seriously. Are you arguing just to argue? I know that back in the day harleys always used to overheat, I figured maybe his would be OK because its liquid cooled. But if its not one thing, its another. When we were picking up his bike from the dealer (i had to ride it home for him) there was another gentleman there buying an electra glide
and he had just agreed to purchase it. The salesman said he couldn't take it home because the break calipers were bad (it was brand new). Im new to forums and i don't like to argue/state points, how do I/you know that the other isn't lying? Anyways shoot your points at me on why they are reliable.

Originally Posted by Rickster

Excelant post. Very commendable for a 19 year old to be debt free, hopefully like me, you'll be able to say the same thing when your my age.

Based on this post I get the impresson that you would like us to believe that you are a responsible and clear thinking young man, and based on this post alone I do get that impression, but I start to get confused when I go back and read your last couple of posts, because it just doesn't seem possible that, (#1) a 19 year old that is interested in motorcycles only knows of one Harley, and (#2) as a clear thinking dude you would be willing to state "haha yea, i think that answers the quesiton "what's wrong with harleys?".... wouldn't you say?" simply because the one Harley you know of has an oil leaking issue, as I said that makes as much sense as me saying "all white dudes are gay because I saw one with orange pig tails". FYI, by gay i mean strange.
Any way if you want this dude (me) to listen to and attach any value to your opinion on Harley's, your going to have to come up with a better argument.

[nativenyerintexas]

Originally Posted by Jip

I'd like someone to prove this two for one arguement, I hear it all the time but I don't see it. Lets compare apples to apples, the C/M50 should be compared to a sporster and the 90s with a dyna or softail.

A Sportster is a 1200, which is 1.5 times the size of a C/M50. That being said, the CC to HP to weight ratio I think is greater with the C/M50s than the Sportsters.

Why Harley's Suck

Harley Davidson Advancements

Same Old, Same Old

Marketing

If not for marketing, HDs would have to increase the price of their bikes. You can buy kitchen towels and door mats with an HD bar and Shield logo... I've been having a hard time just finding a Boulevard logo patch for my vest... they don't make hem anymore. If their bikes were worth the steel they were made with, they wouldn't need all this marketing. How often do you see a Suzuki, Yamaha or Honda branded item in JC Penney's? Never? Didn't think so.

[cardude720]

Originally Posted by nativenyerintexas

A Sportster is a 1200, which is 1.5 times the size of a C/M50. That being said, the CC to HP to weight ratio I think is greater with the C/M50s than the Sportsters.

Why Harley's Suck

Harley Davidson Advancements

Same Old, Same Old

Marketing

If not for marketing, HDs would have to increase the price of their bikes. You can buy kitchen towels and door mats with an HD bar and Shield logo... I've been having a hard time just finding a Boulevard logo patch for my vest... they don't make hem anymore. If their bikes were worth the steel they were made with, they wouldn't need all this marketing. How often do you see a Suzuki, Yamaha or Honda branded item in JC Penney's? Never? Didn't think so.

oh ya, and what he said...

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by cardude720

first of i like to know that we can have a clear discussion with out arguing/bantering. Read this Harley Davidson @ Pissed Consumer (if you have the time ) I know that their could be complaints about anything but seriously. Are you arguing just to argue? I know that back in the day harleys always used to overheat, I figured maybe his would be OK because its liquid cooled. But if its not one thing, its another. When we were picking up his bike from the dealer (i had to ride it home for him) there was another gentleman there buying an electra glide
and he had just agreed to purchase it. The salesman said he couldn't take it home because the break calipers were bad (it was brand new). Im new to forums and i don't like to argue/state points, how do I/you know that the other isn't lying? Anyways shoot your points at me on why they are reliable.

See here's why I have a problem with believing your a clear thinking dude (I know that's my term not yours, but it seems that that's what you would like us to believe about you) you jumped into a discussion that's got over 600 posts on it, and by asking me to shoot you my points indicates that you haven't taken the time to read what was written before you jumped in because all my points are already there, and now you want to take the lazy way out and have me re-post them, that my young friend is an indication (notice I said indication) that you might (notice I said might) just be another closed minded individual that has chosen to believe something that someone has told you with no basis in the facts. If you really feel strongly about this, go back and read the previous 600+ posts.

FYI if you didn't want an argument you should have (#1) not made such a foolish opening statement here, and (#2) you should now admit that you really don't know anything (good or bad) about Harley's, and leave it at that.

The only reason this is still going on is because you keep coming back with lame a$$ed statements about Harley's that could have just as easily been said about any other brand of bike on the market.

A small percentage of anything that is mass produced whether it be motorcycles, cars, toasters, or tennis balls is going to have problems, Harley is no different, and one or two problems doesn't mean the whole brand is bad, do you really think they could year after year continue to out sell all the other brands of cruisers combined if they were selling junk. What kind of idiots do you think the American public is?

Oh, and another FYI for you, maybe you were just typing faster than you were thinking, but the only Harley's that are water cooled are the V Rod line.

Fact is, the only thing wrong with Harley's is that they are slightly overpriced when compared to other bikes, personally I think all bikes are overpriced, but when you get down to comparing apples to apples, Harley's are "slightly" higher, for example, I paid $16,500 for my new 2006 Road King 2 years ago, a comparable metric would be the Suzuki C90T that sells for about $5000 less, now don't get me wrong, I think $5000 is quite a big difference, but there are a few advantages the Road King has to offset that, for example my HD came stock with electronic cruise control, and fog/running lights that the Suzuki doesn't have, and I also believe Harley has better paint, and way more chrome, so the real difference shrinks to about $2500, no wheres near the twice the price that some uninformed people would like you to believe.

One last thing, and you can take it any way you like, but it's meant as friendly advice. If you plan on continuing this, do some research, your starting to look foolish.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by nativenyerintexas

A Sportster is a 1200, which is 1.5 times the size of a C/M50. That being said, the CC to HP to weight ratio I think is greater with the C/M50s than the Sportsters.

Why Harley's Suck

Harley Davidson Advancements

Same Old, Same Old

Marketing

If not for marketing, HDs would have to increase the price of their bikes. You can buy kitchen towels and door mats with an HD bar and Shield logo... I've been having a hard time just finding a Boulevard logo patch for my vest... they don't make hem anymore. If their bikes were worth the steel they were made with, they wouldn't need all this marketing. How often do you see a Suzuki, Yamaha or Honda branded item in JC Penney's? Never? Didn't think so.

First off, all Sportsters are not 1200cc, they also make a smaller 883cc, and the HP to weight ratio of the 883 is very close to that of the C/M50, a 1200 sportster will eat a C/M50 alive, the S50 however will give the big Sportster a good run for it's money.

Second, if you want to make a point, don't be lazy and post someone else's thoughts, anyway everything you linked to has already been countered previously in this thread. Try reading them, it could be an eye opener.

Third, when did a good marketing program become something bad.

You've got a great bike, I loved the M50 I had, but putting down someone else's ride doesn't make your ride any better, all it does is make you appear to be small minded, jealous, and bitter.

Enjoy your ride man, it's a great bike, in some ways even better than a HD, but Harley's are not junk either, they make a good product that sells well, I know some people don't like the fact that there are so many Harley's out there, but do some honest research and you'll discover why there are so many, they make a good solid product.

I really can't understand why there are so Manny people that willing to come on here and make fools of themselves by repeating crap they have heard from some uninformed fool, doesn't anybody do any research anymore.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by cardude720

oh ya, and what he said...

Your just proving my previous point.

[cardude720]

yes in know that his (vrod) is the only liquid cooled one. Thats why i thought that it might be ok. #1 i feel that i am a "pretty clear thinking dude" (and open minded)
#2 i must agree with me bieng lazy and not wanting to read 30 pages of harley BS.

I have nothing against "harley dudes" just the bikes and engineering. Slighlty overpriced is fine, you do get more, and I am only talking about reliability . But you said "do you really think they could year after year continue to out sell all the other brands of cruisers combined if they were selling junk"
and the answer sadly is yes. Americans buy fords, gm's and chryslers (not doggin on the classics, before chrysler was building front-wheel drive crap) even though the statistics clearly show that they are sh##ier and have more problems per car then all of the japanese brands. I don't even want to start listing problems that I/my friends/my associates/the guy i met at the supermarket(last one was a joke) have had with american cars. Leaking oil on an '01 crown vic with only 32k miles. Ford not recalling the exploding gas tanks on the crown vic. (i owned the vic btw) a chrysler sebring i rented with 8 (yes eight) miles on it that over heated because the radiator was malfunctioning. or maybe I should tell you about the '84 honda v65 sabre my father owned with 107,00 miles, or my commuter car, a '91 civic just shy of 300k miles. I may have jumped to conclusions with harley, but I just can't seem to trust american engeneering when it comes to vehicles. I already knew about "american engenuity" before my friend bought his vrod, i tried very hard to get him to buy a japanese bike, and then my point was proven in under 1500 miles. Even some harley riders admit that harley's are not reliable. ever seen the sticker: "I'd rather push a Harley then ride a Honda".... what do you think that means?

My (american) Crown Vic



the 300k mile civic (im taking the pic)

and i dont understand your statement " it just doesn't seem possible that, (#1) a 19 year old that is interested in motorcycles only knows of one Harley" wtf? it doesnt seem possible? Well you better believe it bub. I don't know how to prove it but it's true.

Originally Posted by Rickster

See here's why I have a problem with believing your a clear thinking dude (I know that's my term not yours, but it seems that that's what you would like us to believe about you) you jumped into a discussion that's got over 600 posts on it, and by asking me to shoot you my points indicates that you haven't taken the time to read what was written before you jumped in because all my points are already there, and now you want to take the lazy way out and have me re-post them, that my young friend is an indication (notice I said indication) that you might (notice I said might) just be another closed minded individual that has chosen to believe something that someone has told you with no basis in the facts. If you really feel strongly about this, go back and read the previous 600+ posts.

FYI if you didn't want an argument you should have (#1) not made such a foolish opening statement here, and (#2) you should now admit that you really don't know anything (good or bad) about Harley's, and leave it at that.

The only reason this is still going on is because you keep coming back with lame a$$ed statements about Harley's that could have just as easily been said about any other brand of bike on the market.

A small percentage of anything that is mass produced whether it be motorcycles, cars, toasters, or tennis balls is going to have problems, Harley is no different, and one or two problems doesn't mean the whole brand is bad, do you really think they could year after year continue to out sell all the other brands of cruisers combined if they were selling junk. What kind of idiots do you think the American public is?

Oh, and another FYI for you, maybe you were just typing faster than you were thinking, but the only Harley's that are water cooled are the V Rod line.

Fact is, the only thing wrong with Harley's is that they are slightly overpriced when compared to other bikes, personally I think all bikes are overpriced, but when you get down to comparing apples to apples, Harley's are "slightly" higher, for example, I paid $16,500 for my new 2006 Road King 2 years ago, a comparable metric would be the Suzuki C90T that sells for about $5000 less, now don't get me wrong, I think $5000 is quite a big difference, but there are a few advantages the Road King has to offset that, for example my HD came stock with electronic cruise control, and fog/running lights that the Suzuki doesn't have, and I also believe Harley has better paint, and way more chrome, so the real difference shrinks to about $2500, no wheres near the twice the price that some uninformed people would like you to believe.

One last thing, and you can take it any way you like, but it's meant as friendly advice. If you plan on continuing this, do some research, your starting to look foolish.

[cardude720]

You keep saying that "they make a good product that sells well". just because it sells well does not make it a good product! Ford sold the pinto and people bought that didn't they? Ford is still in business, selling $150,000 super cars (Ford GT) that leaks oil (look it up). and the 883 does not even compare to the m50.... I'm pretty sure that "Will," a motorcycle expert for motorcycle.com said that the m50 was the sportiest of all the bikes. Read on...

2006 Light-Middleweight Cruiser Comparison - Motorcycle.com

Originally Posted by Rickster

First off, all Sportsters are not 1200cc, they also make a smaller 883cc, and the HP to weight ratio of the 883 is very close to that of the C/M50, a 1200 sportster will eat a C/M50 alive, the S50 however will give the big Sportster a good run for it's money.

Second, if you want to make a point, don't be lazy and post someone else's thoughts, anyway everything you linked to has already been countered previously in this thread. Try reading them, it could be an eye opener.

Third, when did a good marketing program become something bad.

You've got a great bike, I loved the M50 I had, but putting down someone else's ride doesn't make your ride any better, all it does is make you appear to be small minded, jealous, and bitter.

Enjoy your ride man, it's a great bike, in some ways even better than a HD, but Harley's are not junk either, they make a good product that sells well, I know some people don't like the fact that there are so many Harley's out there, but do some honest research and you'll discover why there are so many, they make a good solid product.

I really can't understand why there are so Manny people that willing to come on here and make fools of themselves by repeating crap they have heard from some uninformed fool, doesn't anybody do any research anymore.

[Rickster]

OK hows this, the first pic is the speedometer of my friends 97 Heritage Softail Custom when it turned over 100,000 miles, it is entirely stock & original, the only problems she had on it from new were some starter issues.

The second pic is her standing proudly beside her bike, other than a few miles that I rode it, she did all the miles herself including a couple of solo cross country trips. A girl doesn't go solo cross country on a bike that's not reliable.

Also I have well over 20,000 miles on my 06 Road King, and the only maintenance I've had to do on it was tires and oil/filter.

This is my 4th Harley, and all of them have been every bit as reliable as any of my metric bikes.

[cardude720]

OK so i have figured out what is truly "wrong" with harleys. They are so "insert your word here" that they can fuel a 31 page 618 post thread on them. So why shouldn't you buy a harley? Because people will argue with you too much. Thats it. Good bye. I'm going back to my m50 forum where people are more friendly.

It doen't look like I'm getting anywhere with you Rick (and I'm sure you feel the same about me)
Nice chattin' with ya Rickie
Ride safe........
A Salam Alekum/Shalom Alechem **May Peace Be With You**"

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by cardude720

You keep saying that "they make a good product that sells well". just because it sells well does not make it a good product! Ford sold the pinto and people bought that didn't they? Ford is still in business, selling $150,000 super cars (Ford GT) that leaks oil (look it up). and the 883 does not even compare to the m50.... I'm pretty sure that "Will," a motorcycle expert for motorcycle.com said that the m50 was the sportiest of all the bikes. Read on...

2006 Light-Middleweight Cruiser Comparison - Motorcycle.com

Dude, your just not getting it, I owned an M50, and at times swapped back and forth riding my buddies 883, I don't have to go off what someone else said, I know they are a great bike, possibly even sportier that an 883 Sportster, but "sportier" and "better" are two entirely different things.

Stop beating around the bush, show me some facts that prove Harley's are junk, all this talk about cars is just filler to try and hide the fact that you don't know anything about Harley's.