What's wrong with Harleys?

[Karmak]

Originally Posted by dcstrng

As a buddy of mine used to say, one of the worst things that happened to motorcycling was the invention of the weenie button – with the advent of the electric starter, many riders quit wrenching… customarily, traditional riders had to work on their scoot fairly regularly, or you couldn’t boot her to life… and it’s still a great idea.

Ah, the memory you brought back-we screwed up reliability even more by building strokers, to the point we had to get bigger jugs (etc) to accommodate the increases in displacement. I still miss the "burbling" sound a stroker makes at idle-however, in regard to kicking them-the extra compression and displacement played hell with the kicker gear and they'd lose a tooth or two-then, if you gave it a good whack and it slipped through-I can still hear my other B-I-L scream with pain (knee) every time it missed. I remember you could sometimes count the kicks it took to start by counting the nicks in the sidewalks or road from the kickstand every time the bike moved from each kick!! And remember not being able to walk straight for a while after getting off the Sportsters on a long trip? What a rush from a big stroker-that is, until the Z1s (etc.) came out. We spent thousands on the HDs to get them to move anywhere near what the the Kawis could do-right out of the crate. As you say, electric start seemed to end an era-I can still remember a buddy with one of the first as he grinned at us and made a production out of pushing the button while we kicked away. Memory lane-I have to admit it was a culture of sorts that I miss, guys that lived it. Come to think of it, I can't remember ever hearing my B-I-L scream after he missed a gear when he was drunk.

[johbren]

Nothing wrong with Harleys except they are slightly over priced. Its the company that I dont like. I used to own a softail custom back in 92 a brand new one. This attitude with some Harley people that Metrics are to be looked down on is created by Harley. I went in a dealer back in 92 they had a wall of accessories and every one I picked up it said genuine harley part and on the back it said made in Japan. I raised hell and told them Harley davidson company are hipocrates.

[omegajim]

I went in a dealer back in 92 they had a wall of accessories and every one I picked up it said genuine harley part and on the back it said made in Japan. I raised hell and told them Harley davidson company are hipocrates.

I'm sure they're made in China / Taiwan now.

Although I shouldn't holer too much, Harley does quite a bit of local business (Milwaukee) that builds a fair number of their parts.

But, Polaris' Victory motorcycles also have a very high content of American parts. So much so, I would consider a Victory as opposed to a Harley if for no other reason than "to be different." Besides, I think Polaris really hit one out the park with this last year's lineup.

[dcstrng]

<This attitude with some Harley people that Metrics are to be looked down on is created by Harley.>

I don’t know if the MoCo actually created it, but they certainly capitalized on it… that, plus their longstanding inroads with the AMA gave them a ready message when they were trying to save the company in the immediate post-AMF days…

Somehow the MoCo has managed to amalgamate the AMA squeaky-clean persona with the outlaw air of mystery and aggregated into the modern day RUB, which has more than lined their pockets… Of late, the metrics have been marketing their own unique images with noticeable success, but for nearly a couple of decades they were mostly just cloning (the image -- even if the technology was supposedly light-years more modern), which until recently only helped to raise the Harley mystique further – deserved or not…

[dcstrng]

<I have to admit it was a culture of sorts that I miss…>

Ditto – there is something decidedly more visceral about booting a big motor to life… I recall half wearing myself out trying to get an Ironhead to wake up… Even my Nortons could get cantankerous if all those Lucas (the inventor of darkness) electrons weren’t set just right -- and there wasn't any compresion release on those rascals… with the Sporty as well the P11 I rode, resetting the points and gapping the plugs every few weeks was just what ya did to ride… For some reason it seemed like the Shovels were no were near as finicky… I’m still amazed when I can leave a modern bike sit for two weeks, go out and brush the snow off it and the critter fires almost like I just got off it… modern wizardry has totally changed the landscape…

A buddy of mine spent a couple of years building up a 96” Shovelhead pure-kicker a couple of years back… we’re both getting a tad long in the tooth and he rediscovered one of the reasons we treated those big-strokers with such respect thirty something years ago… about two weeks after he got his new/old scoot back on the road, the kicker shed a tooth and he broke his foot on the follow-through… walked around in a cast for 6-7 weeks – which brings back memories of having to have someone with a healthy foot, boot yer scoot when the owner was – uhumm – not at 100%...

[Colorado Cajun]

I think a lot of the Harley looking down on Metric attitude also comes from the price difference. Some feel that they have to justify the extra spending they done and it is their way of doing it. Personally, I think they have some very nice bikes and have improved in realibility, but since I don't have the money they want for them, I don't think I'll be buying one any time soon. I find it funny when I hear someone talk down metrics who doesn't even have a bike and they say "I want a Harley" and I ask, Oh what model? And they can't even name one. Goes to show you that a lot of people have bought into their marketing and perception.

[dcstrng]

<I find it funny when I hear someone talk down metrics who doesn't even have a bike and they say "I want a Harley">

Ain’t that the truth… When I see all those motorcycle decals on the back windows of SUVs, I’ve often wondered how many didn’t have a bike to back it up – what’s the decal to bike ratio, and I wonder if it varies by brand… However, there is no good reason a Milwaukee product should be vastly more expensive than a metric (actually, my Nomad from initial cost on has been more expensive that the HD – but then I’ve never bought new in forty something years, and I guess I probably won’t at this late date… far too many garage queens out there )

[frostbitevinnie]

Originally Posted by dcstrng

<I find it funny when I hear someone talk down metrics who doesn't even have a bike and they say "I want a Harley">)

Ain't that the truth. A guy I work with bought a new bike and I was out looking at it. There was a woman by the door having a smoke and in passing I said "nice bike huh?" Here response "It's not a Harley like yours." I said nothing just walked inside laughing. My co-worker has a kawi klr650 and I have a zuki. Does HD make a 650 dual sport?

[Alex13]

I don't care for them because they are way overpriced and the attitudes of people who ride them. The only ones they have that look decent are stupid expensive, and the ones I think are terribly ugly are still expensive. Every bike in the boulevard line looks great and you can get it for a lot cheaper!

[IntruderCruiser]

Originally Posted by Alex13

I don't care for them because they are way overpriced and the attitudes of people who ride them. The only ones they have that look decent are stupid expensive, and the ones I think are terribly ugly are still expensive. Every bike in the boulevard line looks great and you can get it for a lot cheaper!

thank you -- I ride a Harley and have absolutely no attitude against anyone except dumb bunnies who ride irresponsibly - I know I have more miles on a metric bike than you have and I will put more miles on Harleys than you will put on a metric

In my opinion, your the one with the poor attitude

[frostbitevinnie]

It's still my opinion that all bikes are "stupid expensive". Some more than others. Metrics are cheaper than HD but still overpriced. I had the money for a new bike but in reality it makes just as much sense as buying a Hummer as a grocery getter, just a lot more fun. I just took a chunk out of the kids inheritance is all. They will live.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by IntruderCruiser

thank you -- I ride a Harley and have absolutely no attitude against anyone except dumb bunnies who ride irresponsibly - I know I have more miles on a metric bike than you have and I will put more miles on Harleys than you will put on a metric

In my opinion, your the one with the poor attitude

You know, I was thinking prety much the same thing. I hear all this talk about Harley attitude, and it's really no different than BMW/Triumph/Ducati/Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki attitude. The problem isn't the Harley attitude, it's the Harley envy.

[johbren]

I dont envy them payments. I had one but unless I get rich ill never have another one.

[johbren]

Here is another thing. Ran into an old friend the other day he just bought himself a 1990 duoglide. Id say slightly below average for that age Bad paint , woreout saddlle bags no chrome on engine but it runs fine he paid 8500. TO me id rather go out for the same money and have a new Metric than a 17 year old harley. To me its a no brainer. why pay that much just so you can ride a 17 year old bike cause its a harley when you can have a new bike.

[Rickster]

Because a 17 year old bike has already depreciated as much as it's going to, heck, from here on out, it's probably going to gain in value.

I keep hearing how HD's are so much more expensive than metric's, and yes it's true that you pay more to buy one, but you also get more when you sell one, so the cost of owning one is going to be the same. It's just the up front money that's more.

[johbren]

Thats true Rickster Im looking at it as to up keep for a 17 year old bike lets face it its old and will breakdown more than a new bike. Id rather have the peace of mind riding a new bike opposed to an old one.

[knucklehead]

Hey everyone , guess I'll go ahead and put in my 2 cents worth. My first bike was a HD. I love the sound of a HD, nothing better IMO. I purchased a new 2007 C50 for less than 7K, I've added about $1500 in accessories and I love my bike. I want a HD, but the FLSTF(fatboy) that I want list for about 18K plus the accessories I would be spending about 20K. I'm 50 years young and the wife and I love to ride together, but we also have 6 grandchildren. there for we have other important people to spend our money on. We are willing to ride with anyone HD or metric it doesn't matter. If you like to ride motorcycles you are a special breed IMO, I don't judge any one for what they ride. One of my cousins calls my bike a S.O.B.(some other brand). We have never rode anywhere together, I have 2 other cousins that have HD's we ride together whenever we can. So no matter what you ride enjoy and let the ones with an attitude have their attitude and go on..

[Rickster]

I can relate jonbren, and I feel the same way, but the original question here was whats wrong with Harley's, not whats wrong with one particular 17 year old Harley.

A lot of people list price, and I just don't get there reasoning. Here's why, when you get right down to it, for most of us, motorcycles are a luxury item, very few of us use them as our main means of transportation. With that in mind, I'll be willing to bet that if things get tight, it's the luxury items we own that would be the first to be sold, and since in this day & age, most people finance there big buck luxury items, it makes more sense to buy the item that holds it's value the best, no matter what the up front cost is. You don't pay the total anyway, just a little bit every month, and with a Harley you are less likely to wind up upside down in your loan. Also, Harley's represent about half of all the bikes on the road (in this country), so you have a larger pool of perspective buyers if you do need to sell it.
In most cases, Banks know that HD's hold there value very well, and will let you finance for a longer period of time, so instead of making $250 a month for 3 years on a Suzuki M50, you would have to make $350 a month for 5 years for a Road King, If your finances are that tight that $100 a month more is not dooable, than perhaps you shouldn't be buying that luxury item in the first place.
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular here, I'm just saying that I don't get how the MSRP is a problem, unless of course you are one of those rare (in this day and age) individuals that pays cash.

[baltimorebayside]

I'll add my 2 cents in.....

My brother and I drove to Delmarva Bike week in Ocean City Maryland a few weeks ago. We got waves from all bikers, mostly Harley's. When we arrived at the HD store, we drove our metric bikes in and around the parking lot which was filled with nothing but Harleys. My brother was on his 2005 650 V-Star (poor man's Harley look-a-like) and I was on my 1992 750 Nighthawk.

Everyone was nice and everyone waved as we drove to and from the place.....we were getting tired of waving by the end of the day. Maybe it's different here in Maryland, heck, I even get waves by Rocket Bikers!!

I've always been a Honda guy. I like their reliablility. If I could ever buy a new bike, it would most likely be the Suzuki C50T. My Honda Nighthawk only cost me $1,600.00 and it's in MINT condition!!!!

By the time we left Bike Week my ears were ringing.....can't believe the sound from all those Harley's!!!!! WOW!!!! Just can't afford it......it's the same reason I don't own a new pickup truck......just can't afford it being Married With Children................

Besides, if the Harley vibrates as loud as it sounds, my wife would probably run it in the garage all day while I'm at work!!!!

dan

[Dave Nadeau]

Well I will be another one with .2 cents to throw in... I have just bought a Harley. Before I did I did a lot of research on the Harley and a New Gold Wing. I choose the HD. I chose it for reasons of style and comfort for the wife. I for one could not get comfortable on the GW. Now if we talk about the increase cost of HD over metrics I did some off the cuff comparisons. I looked at a Road King and a C90T. Yes the HD is more money. A new Road King (FLHR) is $17,595. A new C90T is $11,499.00. Both before shippng and set up. So you pay 6K more for the HD. It wieghts 45# more, has a 2.3 gallon larger tank and a 2.3" increase of seat height. Almost no plastic or plastic covered chrome.
Now for the $$$ numbers. A 2005 C90T retail is $7,985. Trade in is $5,535.
A HD RK retail is $15,085.00. Trade in is $11,145.
These numbers are from Kelly Blue Book. So if my calculator ain't lying ...on a trade the C90 looses 48% and the HD 14%. I just don't think that the HD are that over priced when you see what you get. IMHO!! You get what you pay for!!