What's wrong with Harleys?

[shmedly]

Originally Posted by dcstrng

<Harley Culture is the real issue being discussed here…>

Oh, well I have no opinion or experience with that… somewhere in my distant past, I have Ironheads, Shovelheads, even an EL as well as the Evos, but no culture… not even sure where to get it – or what it would look like if I did…

Sorry I left out the pic. Here is what a culture looks like:

[dcstrng]

Here is what a culture looks like:

I think I’ve seen that at the bottom of my tool-box once or twice, but don’t recall seeing it at the dealer’s emporium…

Whoopee, I’m cultured… my wife is gunna be so impressed…

[tzeigler88]

Originally Posted by bat4255

It's more of an "Image" thing with a lot of people.

Doctors and Lawyers posing as bad boys on the weekend.

That is exactly what it's like where I live. Granted there are a few true Harley fans and there is nothing wrong with that, but then you have those that see owning a Harley as "the cool thing to do". I just don't get it

[ltdave]

i just dont understand this whole "i can buy two Jap bikes for the cost of one Harley"

2008 FLHTCU Ultra-Classic Electra-Glide in black/(custom)color =

$20,695/$21,855

2008 Goldwing Premium Audio in black/color =

$19,599/$19,899

$1,096 and $1,956 difference respectively...

these prices are the MSRPs from the factory website. i picked the top of the line of the standard bikes. the CVO harley will be more of course but its a limited production bike...

is the Goldwing a better bike? probably (i know they run alot smoother) the only way youre going to get the 2 for 1 argument to stick is to compare apples to apples (like alot of people here seems to SAY but not DO)...

$6,995 for a sportster 883
$6,799 for a shadow aero (750)

i picked these two bikes because they seemed to be about the same (size wise and position wise on the corporate totem pole)...

the guy across the street from me is a sucessful business owner. he USED to own 18 harleys. hes down to 16 because his soon to be Ex-wife sold 2 of them for pennies on the dollar. hes not a snob to me at all...

i ride (or will be soon!) an 81 yamaha xj 550 maxim...

i say ride what you want. as for me, i just want a bike big enough for my wife and i...

d

[650Doug]

I dunno what's wrong with them. But I bet the new HD Beef Jerky I found at my local video store is ok. Even if it is overpriced...

[MotorMike]

I agree that there are some riders that are ignorant of others because they don't ride a particular brand. Let's face it, there are idiots regardless of what brand you ride. Harley Davidson puts out a product that has brand loyalty, numerous models, numerous accessories, a program to get riders started in the motorcycling, and they have advanced the technology on their product within the last few years. Large metric cruisers are now getting to the point where they are higgher priced and stale regarding technology (Honda and no FI unless you buy an 1800 and Yamaha with no updates to the Royal Star Tourer and Venture). What metric manufacturer has a six speed on their large cruisers ? With the higher list prices and lower labor costs, don't you think they can afford it ? Harley also encourages and embraces the customer relationship with events and rallies sponsored by the company and dealers. Other than Honda and to some extent Yamaha, who else does this in the metric market. Metric manufacturers seem to leave the relationship aspect up to the customers and individuals like us who participate in the forums and other events put on buy ourselves with no support. I ride Suzuki by the way and wish they did some of this as well.

[omegajim]

numerous models,

Well, I hate to correct you Mike, but HD can only have so many models with the paradigm they have.

ie, HD can't very well build a crotch rocket, it's not there style; instead Buell is making a go at it. Depending on who you ask they are having various degrees of success.

As for innovation, I'm really happy that Harley is building a bike that is very comparable to the metrics, wherever exactly they are assembled.

As for six speed transmissions, if your bike has good power, sixth gear is pretty much redundant. I believe Harley does it more for marketing, since their bikes have enough torque that only three gears are necessary. Low, med. and high.

Harley's built since '84 have been good, Harley's built since 02 have been pretty much on par (minus a few quirks) with nearly anything and it's about time.

What I don't like about Harley's is that every little part has to be chromed and jacked up in price like there's no tomorrow.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by omegajim

What I don't like about Harley's is that every little part has to be chromed and jacked up in price like there's no tomorrow.

Hey Jim, here's am up date for you, some of us even like to wash our bikes once and a while.

[texrider]

Originally Posted by Rickster

Hey Jim, here's am up date for you, some of us even like to wash our bikes once and a while.

That could get to be a full-time job for you!

[omegajim]

I washed the old scooter just last week; I drove it home from work in the rain.


Still wondering when Harley will make the transformation to liquid cooled, but I figure the EPA will be making that determination for them.

[ltdave]

and jacked up in price like there's no tomorrow.

i agree with this. my buddy got a $50 gift card for Christmas from a nephew and went in to do some shopping. he came out with a T-shirt and a pair of gloves...

he didnt have enough on the gift card to cover it all...

d

[omegajim]

If you ever read Brock Yates book about HD, you will soon find that Harley has traditionally made more money on merchandising than on the bikes.

By like a 3 to 1 margin; heck some years back they lost money on the bikes and broke even with the help of merchandising / licensing fees.

Oh, and to address this

$6,995 for a sportster 883
$6,799 for a shadow aero (750)

That's all well and good, but for the Honda, you couldn't spend $2500 on aftermarket do dads because at least 2 or 3 companies make aftermarket parts for nearly everything on the bike.

In the HD world, you couldn't spend less then $2500 and then it still won't be what you want.

Case in point; the sportster comes with the "peanut" tank, well you want the big tank, right? Then the seat won't go with the new tank, and so on and so forth. All you really wanted was a fuel tank bigger than your kidney!

[frostbitevinnie]

Before I bought my c90t I thought very seriously about buying HD. I looked at every bike in my price range but I just could not justify all the extra cash I would have to put out to get what I wanted. The c90t was just what I was looking for. I still like HD and have many friends that are loyal to HD. Personally I would really like to try the new Rocker. Looks like a fun and cool bike. Maybe when the kids are out of the house I can actually have three bikes again.

Oh yeah, I always hear that HD has 6 speeds and to be honest I really don't know why. Compared to my old gs850 my c90t feels like it is almost lugging at 60mph. The 850 was screaming at 65 or 70. I think I might need a 6th gear on the 90t when doing 90mph++. Even at 90 it still sounds great. Other than that its pretty much only a selling point for those uninformed IMHO.

[omegajim]

Before I bought my c90t I thought very seriously about buying HD. I looked at every bike in my price range but I just could not justify all the extra cash I would have to put out to get what I wanted.

It might only be 2500 - 3000 dollars, but when comparing a 12000 bike and 15000, it's still enough.

But again, my point, six speeds? The metrics tried it, found they really didn't need it, and most don't have it today. Except the rockets, but that's a horse of another color.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by omegajim

It might only be 2500 - 3000 dollars, but when comparing a 12000 bike and 15000, it's still enough.

But again, my point, six speeds? The metrics tried it, found they really didn't need it, and most don't have it today. Except the rockets, but that's a horse of another color.

I don't think it matters to HD, that you need it or not, they only want to sell bikes (just like the metrics). Hd seems to be marketing it in a way that works better than everyone else.

Come to thing of it, why stop at whether we need a 6 speed or not. How about, "do we need motorcycles at all". Motorcycles are just a big expensive toy, and it doesn't have anything at all to do with "what you need", it's all about what you want, and HD is giving a lot more people what they want, than all the metrics put together do.

[MoonRunner]

I don't see anything more wrong with Harley Davidson than any other brand. Each having their own merits and drawbacks. The worst thing I see is that it appears a crap load of people that don't have them are so jealous of those that do so they spend far too much time nitpicking HD and their riders apart to justify their own purchase of what they seem to feel is a lesser bike. It's kind of like the gradeschool thing that it is easier to make yourself look good if you can make the others look bad. Less work involved in that and who needs facts.
Harley Davidson; You either have one or you don't!

Just kidding; I think!!

[frostbitevinnie]

I would not say that I am jealous, I just did not see spending more money at this time for less features. I would love to buy the FXCW Rocker when I can afford it. Bare bones chopper starting at close to $18K. A lot of money for a bike but we do live in a country of vast prosperity, the "vast prosperity" just has not landed in my yard yet.

The Rocker would be a toy but I cannot say that my C90T is. I take it everywhere. Hardware store, small errands to the grocery or Target, work etc... I filled up my Hundai July 27, I still have half a tank. The C90T is my everyday vehicle and a (H E double toothpicks) of a lot more fun than the Hyundai.

[4dtvman]

Gee Moon runner If I had all that money you have in bikes I'd work less and ride more. Some of us weren't blessed with all that money so we may afford all those high end bikes. But don't worry Clinton will take some of that away and give it to me. It's called sharing. So since we are going to be sharing I'll take the gold wing you can keep the HD's

[omegajim]

The worst thing I see is that it appears a crap load of people that don't have them are so jealous of those that do so they spend far too much time nitpicking HD and their riders apart to justify their own purchase of what they seem to feel is a lesser bike.

Actually, Moonrunner, I thought that way about HD for about a year or two.

About that.

Then I saw a BMW.

Now, that's jealousy. You could sell me a HD for a ridiculous price (10 cents on the dollar) and after about a year or 2, I'd still trade it for a bike from "Das fatherland."

You can take that to the bank.

But I shouldn't talk so, since where I work (Milwaukee - maybe you HD folks have heard of it) and we actually make product that goes on the Harley. But that's all I'm at liberty to say.

So, you could say Harley, to an extent, is providing me a job. There are providing a great deal of work in the area. Along with Polaris - most of their parts are mfg'd in the midwest as well. And I won't throw in Buell for good measure, oops, I just did.

Which reminds me, exactly what 3rd world country assembles most of the metric bikes these days? I figure there's an area in / around Malaysia where the slap 'em together. After the engines and drivetrains are made in Japan, because it will be a long time before they ship that anywhere.

Wow, I think I just defended Harley. Who knew?

[MoonRunner]

I'm just givin' you guys a rash of trash about Harleys. All that money? I don't have any left now. I gave it all to Harley and Honda. That's why my other vehicle is a Hyundai. BMWs handle very well and are pretty reliable, heck I'd even ride a Ural for a while if I had money to blow. I had a 85 K100RT beemer and actually traded it in on my first Harley, an 87 Super Glide. Beemers weren't perfect either. At 26,000 miles the header collector broke in half while touring through Maryland and I had to hold it together with muffler tape and bailing wire till I got back home and the footpegs would buzz your legs to sleep over the long haul.

By the way 4dtvman, I certainly was never blessed with money, I worked hard and earned it. I was however blessed with the ability to work for a decent wage and manage it in such a way that I have raised my family and can now indulge a bit. I see you have more than one bike as well. And Clinton can ....... I will retire from my present job before I'll pay much more in taxes. They already get too darned much.