Advice for exhaust and FI unit

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by Uechi Kid

The dyno shop that I had mine done at said the factory fuel controllers adjustabiliy is limited and the PCIII is fully adjustable. I've said this before, if you are going to spend all that money on intake and pipes why skimp on a fuel controller and map? I want to get the most from my bike. I want it to run right.

What did you think he was going to say, he sells PC3's for crying out loud. If the technician at your dyno shop was honest with you, he would have said that he doesn't have the codes to change the stock ECU, so he has to do the next best thing, and that's to sell you a unit that he can adjust. One that will lie to the stock unit. The stock unit has the adjustabilty, it has to becaus it is still controling your motor. The PC3 is just lying to the sensors supplying info to the stock ECU. Bottom line is that at least for right now, the only way to get our EFI bikes to run right with aftermarket intake, and exhaust, is to add an aftermarket ECU. If the manufactures ever release the codes, that will all change. For what it's worth, I to beleve that the PC111 is the best one out there right now.

[Uechi Kid]

Originally Posted by Toolboy

the bike runs fine but a you feel it being hesitant on the first 1/4 twist of the throttle. This is where you need a FI unit.

Toolboy

If it's hesitating...... It's not running fine.

[Uechi Kid]

Originally Posted by Rickster

What did you think he was going to say, he sells PC3's for crying out loud. If the technician at your dyno shop was honest with you, he would have said that he doesn't have the codes to change the stock ECU, so he has to do the next best thing, and that's to sell you a unit that he can adjust. One that will lie to the stock unit. The stock unit has the adjustabilty, it has to becaus it is still controling your motor. The PC3 is just lying to the sensors supplying info to the stock ECU. Bottom line is that at least for right now, the only way to get our EFI bikes to run right with aftermarket intake, and exhaust, is to add an aftermarket ECU. If the manufactures ever release the codes, that will all change. For what it's worth, I to beleve that the PC111 is the best one out there right now.

Actually they didn’t sell me anything. All they did was service. I had the parts, they did the work.
If it is an issue of the codes not being released, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to show up at the after market shops. New EPA regulation would probably make the manufacturers at risk for fines.

[Rickster]

Originally Posted by Uechi Kid

Actually they didn’t sell me anything. All they did was service. I had the parts, they did the work.
If it is an issue of the codes not being released, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to show up at the after market shops. New EPA regulation would probably make the manufacturers at risk for fines.

You are 100% correct, and I don't expect the manufacturers will ever release the codes. My point was that the tec at your dyno shop was blowing smoke. What he said was right, but not for the reason that he said it. It just get's my goat, that so many of these tec's think that the average motorcycle jockey is just to dumb to understand anything beyond "GAS & GO". I'm not trying to get in your face, (Uechi Kid), I think your posts are well thought out, and worth reading.

[Uechi Kid]

Thanks Rickster back at ya.

[intimid8er]

Originally Posted by Rickster

It just get's my goat, that so many of these tec's think that the average motorcycle jockey is just to dumb to understand anything beyond "GAS & GO".

Don't get me started on this.........


To me. The whole Motorcycle Industry is about ten to fifteen years behind the Auto Industry as far as customer satisfaction/service and other things. From the sales department on back to the service department. I've run into many different scenarios that suggest a dysfunctional "selling health". Yet they survive. Only reason being, is in some places your local Yamakawazukiha Dealer is the only game in town. They treat their clientele as such. I'm not saying all are like this, but there is a definite snobbishness at the dealerships. Whether it be Import or Harley.

For sure, there is a lack of a coherent "roadmap" or recipe for success of "a sale". I've noticed a lack of training in the reps on the floor. I've often thought maybe I'm too critical because I know the road to the sale like the back of my hand, but I realize I don't wear that hat when I've been out shopping. I do expect to get waited on when I've sat on fifty bikes in the showroom, and the reps just sit there and stare at you. Helping you or answering questions isn't as important as figuring out where they are going to party that night. Trying to help me as I leave is more insulting than sitting there watching me "land" on a bike (landing=standing, hovering, sitting on one product for an extended period of time) and ignoring me. I've found there is two types of "helpers" too. One that talks over you and down to you like you couldn't possibly know more than them about the product or motorcycles in general. Two is the hopelessly lost individual that hasn't a clue about product or selling in general. Then you have the managers that are not well versed in the fine art of negotiating. It should go.....Offer (from the dealership), Counter-offer (customer), Counter-counter-offer (dealership)...etc. until an agreement is reached. Not losing control of your mind when an informed consumer comes in and hits you with a price a little North of invoice that is fair for both parties. Using tactics that worked well twenty years ago on a Used Car lot in the run down section of town, is not a way to win over people also. Berating them, talking down, or getting pissed because the consumer knows what invoice is...and then using flawed logic to justify your position is not the way to go. Ahh...I could go on and on about the sales side. It won't change anything. Because, there are too many consumers that aren't informed, that walk in everyday, and "lay down" for pricing and what not, based on tired and pat comebacks for objections. I.E. Harley's aren't discounted. If a guy has been shopping a Fat Boy at M.S.R.P., and he is offered a Road Star at full boat. It is a relative bargain. People are told they can't negotiate, and they believe it. That and a bunch of other B.S. Until consumers start questioning the whole process, it won't change.

Don't get me wrong. Not every dealership is like that. But, I've got friends all over the country that report similiar frustrations with dealers in general.

Yes there are dealers that cut through the chase. Simple things like putting an M.S.R.P. on the bikes. Some dealers advertise awesome specials in the Cycle Trader. Some you walk in the showroom, and the bikes are adorned with placards with the negotiations done for you. Excellent deals right out of the box. You just have to say "Hello" and "Where do I sign?" Around here, the dealers that are out of the metro area make quite a successful living just catching overflow from the dealers in the metro area, and doing the pre-negotiated deals. They just smile with open arms, and give you a great price right off the bat. There is no explanations that you should pay more money for your Suzuki because bikes hold their value. Crap.....Only Harley's do, and even then they shouldn't. It's not the 90's anymore. Milwaukee makes hundreds of thousands of bikes a year....break the cycle......sheeple!

Service.....ah...we'll save that for another time....I've already probably strained a few of y'all's eyeballs....