Suzuki cruiser of the future

[dragbar]

With Yamaha's truly bold move to move Star to it's own little world and Suzuki's Boulevard move, I can't wait to see the new improvements in the coming years for the big S.

The 109 is truly it's own animal and I really feel that this will trickle down into the other models and some point, maybe leaving the C50 & 90's for the classic style, I wonder what Suzuki will do with the M50 and S models?

Do you see any indication that they will move to make this brand stick? I mean Yamaha got some serious boost when aftermarket parts makers got on board to customize Road Stars.

Thoughts?

[Pinhy]

Originally Posted by dragbar

Thoughts?

that is asking an awful lot of us around here!!!


HAHAHA


.

[stp1971]

I think that eventually everything has to evolve otherwise they will die. I.E.-- dinosaurs, wooly mammoth, neanderthal man, etc. As much as I love my "LC" it is a dinosaur. It is a big, untechnical bike. I know alot of people still love the Harleyisque look of the current cruisers and what Harley is pumping out. But with the introduction of the V-Rod, the M's, and other brands I think the newer generation will start to lean more towards this new departure.

There will always be a demand for the "LC"'s/C90's, C50's, Road Kings, FatBoys, Vulcan's, etc. Just that eventually they will evolve or the variety will diminish over time. That is my thought.

[MagnumForce]

Ah yes...questions like these make me go into rant mode, so here I go.

Suzuki is certainly moving in the right direction. The M109R is a bike that I can truly call "The Cruiser of the Second Millenium." This bike, from my perception, does not seem to have any influences that harken from a bygone era. I believe it was cjjtulsa that said that there needs to be a muscle bike that fell between the M50 and the M109R, equipped with the S83 motor and still retaining the design influences of the M50. I believe this is an excellent concept as I have said the same thing myself. However, after reading the M109R article in Cycle World, I have some new ideas of my own. Using the design of the M109R, I would like to see a potential mid-level version powered by the SV1000 motor bored/stroked to 1200cc (74ci). Although a slight detune may be acceptable, keep in mind that I'm trying to come up with a power cruiser here. Triple disk brakes are mandatory. A tach and actual fuel guage would be nice too. If fat rear tires are your game, how about 220mm? Incorporate most, if not all, of the M109R features. This bike, which I'll call the M74, puts it square in the middle between the M50 and the M109R.

I recognize there will always be a market for classic styled bikes such as the C50/90. These bikes should continue production as long as the demand remains. However, Suzuki cannot tie their muscle bikes to the bygone era like their classic brethren. These bikes should be endowed with fresh new designs, performance, and an abundance of technological innovations.

[dragbar]

I'll be hoping for a mid range performance cruiser for 07. I'm really happy with the M50, but hp is addicting to say the least...and well by then I'll have an enormous amount of miles on it..hehe.


FI was the smartest move with the rebadged bikes by far in my book. Now they really need to set the difference between Suzuki and Boulevard.

[cjjtulsa]

Originally Posted by EZridr1

I believe it was cjjtulsa that said that there needs to be a muscle bike that fell between the M50 and the M109R, equipped with the S83 motor and still retaining the design influences of the M50. I believe this is an excellent concept as I have said the same thing myself. However, after reading the M109R article in Cycle World, I have some new ideas of my own. Using the design of the M109R, I would like to see a potential mid-level version powered by the SV1000 motor bored/stroked to 1200cc (74ci). Although a slight detune may be acceptable, keep in mind that I'm trying to come up with a power cruiser here. Triple disk brakes are mandatory. A tach and actual fuel guage would be nice too. If fat rear tires are your game, how about 220mm? Incorporate most, if not all, of the M109R features. This bike, which I'll call the M74, puts it square in the middle between the M50 and the M109R.

Yep, that was me. I'm wanting more torque (in a big way), without having to go so big that the bike is all torque and has poor road manners from being a total elephant. So far the Mean Streak and Warrior are my two front runners, with the Mean Streak leading because of it's liquid cooled engine and shaft drive. A big +1 on that SV1000 engine upped to 1200cc's; that would make a good powerplant. Try to lighten it up too. I've gone over my wishes on a couple of other threads on this, but I like the SV1000 V-twin idea in an M50-esque frame.

And be gentle with the price, would ya? That is one thing that just chaps my *** with the American made marques. Come on now, $17,000 for a motorcycle? How do you justify it? Material? Not. You can buy some new cars that are close to that price, and they must have two to three times the raw material in them as even a large H/D. Engineering? Of what? An ancient engine design? Not there either, unless you are talking about the V-Rod or something like that. Must be the R&D for the newest hard bags or something. I was a little put off to find that even the headlight housing and air box cover on my M50 was plastic. My God, nothing is sacred, and I dropped $6400 on a bike with almost as much plastic as an AMT model kit. I realize they have to do something to lighten these things, but use more aluminum - not everything plastic. Good thing I'm not the "average" cruiser rider, as I'm not a big fan of "bling". Otherwise all of the plastic weight reduction would be offset by the chrome stuff hanging off of my bike.

[DrBob]

Suzuki has so far followed what they said was their plan in 2004, when they split off the cruiser line and started Boulevard. They said the 'name-badge re-enginieering' was temporary, and that we would see roughly one cruiser a year until all the old models were replaced 'over the next several years'. So far, so good: first they killed the Marauder 800, and replaced it with the M50. Then they killed the M95, and replaced it with the M109. The S83/ Intruder 1400 will be the next to go, followed by the venerable Intruder 800/ S50, probably in 07 and 08 or 08 and 09. The C50 and C90 will be replaced last, as they are still hot sellers, to complete the promised overhaul of the cruiser line up with all new models by 2010. At least that is the feel I got when the whole Boulevard thing came down at the dealer show in Oct 04.

[tlwisner]

Suzuki seems to be prmotoing their cruiser line for the first time ever, and the sales numbers have increased considerably over the same time period a year ago.

I don't really care about the branding and the marketing - I just want good bikes! What will my next bike be? It will be several years in the future and I will have to wait and see what is available then.

[MagnumForce]

cjjtulsa,
For the sake of making the bike lighter, I may have to forego the M109R style body and go with the M50 design with maybe some hints of 109 influence. As far as price, if a $7K Katana can be bundled with a boatload of features as intimid8er stated in another thread, I can't see why the same can't be done for a cruiser. If the M50 retails for $6,899, the M95 is for $10,999, and the M109R is $12,399 MSRP, I suppose it would be fair to price my ideal bike at the $9K range, give or take a few hundred. I don't care too much for chrome either. I prefer the blacked out treatment now present on our bikes.

Okay, why is American iron so expensive? Don't know, I'm a n00b to the scene myself and I got HD's budget bike. Perhaps DrBob can offer better insight than I can. No, I can't say much research has gone to the pushrod engine that has been around since the beginning of the last century. I'm afraid it's all about marketing. It is as such that folks are willing to pay the prices HD asks for. I don't want to get into RUBs either...not worth my time.

In closing, I shall say...

Paging Suzuki marketing...paging Suzuki marketing...EZridr1, cjjtulsa, and intimid8er are awaiting our surveys!

[DrBob]

Hmmm...well, for starters, the twin-cam motor used in Harleys today does not use even a single part from the evolution motor it replaced in 1999. Your evo sportster motor dates to 1985 though, and does share a few parts with the ironhead that pre-dated it. But I get your point: they are 'old school', not high-tech, with the exception of revolution motor in the v-rod family, which makes un-goddly HP on only 1100ccs.
I would argue that Harley bikes are not at all expensive. They sell every single one they make, and control 80% of the cruiser market, so you could almost argue that they don't charge enough: basic business 101 teaches you that until sales fall you are not charging too much. They hold their value sooooooo much better than a metric bike also.
If you compare a big, full-dresser Harley to the price of a Goldwing, or the cruiser models to the price of a Victory or Indian (before they went bust again) you'll see that the Harley models are actually pretty reasonable.

[cjjtulsa]

Originally Posted by DrBob

Hmmm...
I would argue that Harley bikes are not at all expensive. They sell every single one they make, and control 80% of the cruiser market, so you could almost argue that they don't charge enough: basic business 101 teaches you that until sales fall you are not charging too much. They hold their value sooooooo much better than a metric bike also.
If you compare a big, full-dresser Harley to the price of a Goldwing, or the cruiser models to the price of a Victory or Indian (before they went bust again) you'll see that the Harley models are actually pretty reasonable.

I'll agree that economics 101-wise H/Ds aren't overpriced. But common sense wise they are over the top. Just my opinion. As long as you have a large segment of highly paid (or those with good credit) people who have been brainwashed by the stigma that the Harley Davidson is the ultimate bike, and all else is inferior, you'll have people lining up to pay way too much for a motorcycle. Same could be said for GM if they could convince every 40-something that anything other than a Hummer is not an SUV, much less a 4X4. You'd have people lining up to pay way too much for a re-bodied Tahoe, while much more capable, reliable, and reasonably priced 4X4s would collect dust on car lots all over America. Personally I think I'd take one of the European bikes over an H/D (except maybe a V-Rod). I guess I'm just not as impressed by all of the hype.

[intimid8er]

Originally Posted by cjjtulsa

You'd have people lining up to pay way too much for a re-bodied Tahoe,

Don't they call them Escalade's???

I respectfully don't agree with the statement that Harley sells all they make. There are a lot of shell games that go on that we don't see. Surplus bikes are "sold" into in house rental fleets and other "Third party" rental fleets. Last year '04's were available well into the calendar year of '05 around here. They'll eventually sell yes. I don't have the article, but back in June or something. There was a reporting of really soft sales for the first quarter. (Of course they blamed a late spring up North, Hurricanes in Florida, and the tsunami for cripes sake!).

NEW YORK, June 22, 2005 (PRIMEZONE) -- Murray, Frank & Sailer LLP has filed a class action lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin on behalf of shareholders who purchased or otherwise acquired the securities of Harley-Davidson, Inc. (``Harley'' or the ``Company'') (NYSE:HDI - News) between January 21, 2004 through April 12, 2005, inclusive (the ``Class Period'').


Harley produces motorcycles, motorcycle parts, accessories and general merchandise. During the Class Period, defendants made numerous positive statements regarding the Company's financial performance and prospects. The complaint alleges that these statements were materially false and misleading because defendants failed to disclose or indicate the following: (1) that the much touted gap between the consumer demand for Harley's products and the available supply had disappeared; (2) that the Company shipped excess inventory to dealers that the Company knew, or was made aware, was at an unsustainable rate given the demand for Harley's products to create the appearance of continued strong demand and mask the decline in demand; (3) that the financial performance of the Company's Financial Services Division was materially negatively impacted by interest rate fluctuations; (4) as a result, the Company's financial results were materially inflated at all relevant times; and (5) that the Company's lacked any reasonable basis for the financial projections it provided concerning its future growth.

On April 13, 2005, the Company disclosed that it would cut its production of new 2005 motorcycles as a result of declining demand and excess dealer inventories. This news caused the Company's share price to plummet more than 16% in one day. By April 15, 2005, as the market continued digesting the news, Harley-Davidson shares had declined 22% percent below the closing price on April 12, 2005 -- the day before the disclosure of declining demand and the planned production cut.

Every moto mag is gleefully reporting that the V-Rod enjoys a price reduction of $1000 across the board. A quick scan of internet pricing around here on 2006 models does not reveal said incentive on the sticker. Again it furthers my conspiracy theory belief, that the dealers are trying to hang on to the mystique of Harley being a limited production run bike that enjoyed EXPLOSIVE growth during the nineties. Whereas, you wanted a bike, you went in, put your money down, and waited for Milwaukee to build it. Sometimes as long as a year or more. The reason a lot of Sporties sold, is because they sat in the showrooms, and the salesman convinced guys they'd give them a great trade-in on it if they bought it and rode it whilst they waited for their bike of choice to be delivered. During those times, just about the ONLY showroom model was a Sporty. Forget about going to a dealer to look at the different models, unless you wanted to look at a bunch of used ones that were overpriced and weighed down with that "Live to Ride" crap all over them.

[cjjtulsa]

Originally Posted by intimid8er

Forget about going to a dealer to look at the different models, unless you wanted to look at a bunch of used ones that were overpriced and weighed down with that "Live to Ride" crap all over them.

Good stuff!